Five years ago, a mysterious electronic duo named Sym Fera emerged seemingly out of nowhere on the State of the Art Records label. Their ethereal, evocative music was soon placed on hit television shows like Ozark, The Resident ,and Prodigal Son, inspiring fans to flock to streaming services, Shazam, and the internet to learn more about the rising group.
But most of those queries yielded dead ends. Articles and interviews in Rolling Stone, Wonderland, and Loudwire couldn’t unravel the Sym Fera mystery, and supposedly even the executives at State of the Art didn’t know who they were. But now, as Sym Fera release their Ghoulish Machine EP, they’ve decided it’s time for their big reveal: They are Vinnie Ferra (co-founder of the Beehive, a company that manages tours for pop superstars like Halsey and Madison Beer), and, perhaps more shockingly and headline-grabbingly, Nick Simmons, the son of KISS rocker Gene Simmons.
Joining Lyndsanity on Zoom with his longtime friend and musical partner Vinnie, Nick jokes that his famous father’s big, tongue-wagging mouth is “the bane of my existence,” so — while his family (including his sister Sophie Simmons, a professional pop artist in her own right) did know his Sym Fera secret — he “had to make sure they didn’t blab.” Gene subtly got the word out in other ways. “My dad’s been wearing a hat with our logo on it for four years! He just didn’t tell anybody what it was. … That hat has gone for a very wild ride that I didn’t expect it to, and didn’t want it to necessarily,” Nick laughs. “I think it’s in a picture with Flavor Flav or something. It’s not really what Vinnie and I pictured for our PR outreach.”
When it comes to PR, the surprisingly humble Nick wanted to keep Sym Fera’s announcement low-key – he actually cringes at the word “reveal,” and uses the word “cringe” a lot during our interview. He points out that the idea to keep Sym Fera’s identities under wraps for so long was actually more Vinnie’s idea, because Vinnie was trying to keep the project separate from his Beehive day job. But Nick, who turned down several record deals as a teenager, during his Gene Simmons’s Family Jewels reality TV era, because he knew he wasn’t ready and his early music would not be well-received, is aware of the expectations and skepticism that come with being a member of a famous family.
“A lot of people don’t have the luxury of just pursuing their dreams all day. They have a day job. So, I’m kind of on the side of the people who criticize the ‘nepo babies,’ personally, because they’re right in a lot of ways,” Nick admits. “It would be silly to try to diminish the fact that even just not having credit card debt in any moment in your young life is a crazy leg up. Most people are living with debt day-to-day. Most people need a day job to get by day-to-day. I get to pursue music. It’s incredibly lucky. So, all that’s left is to not be a dick about how lucky you are, and just move forward.”
In the video above and Q&A below, Nick Simmons and Vinnie Ferra discuss the long, mysterious journey of Sym Fera, why this was right time to reveal their identities, and what’s next for the duo.
LYNDSANITY: You guys have been doing this Sym Fera project for five years, but only now did you let the cat out of the bag. So, I’ll start by asking for a little history about how this came together, and why you kept your identities secret for so long.
FERRA: Well, the journey has been a long one. We’ve been making music together for a lot longer than five years, and we’ve known each other for longer than five years. We started making music together with a lot of other people, collaborating with a lot of other people… and then we wrote a song with just him and I, and we were like, “This is actually fun, more efficient.” We ended up liking the finished product better. And so, we kept going with that, and songs just kept coming out and out and out, very quickly and easily. We made so much music.
SIMMONS: We didn’t really have an idea for a “project.” We were doing it for fun.
FERRA: It was a creative outlet. And then eventually we were like, “We should put this out.” … We got to the point where we felt, “validated” is probably the wrong word for it, but we felt like it was appreciated by those that did get access to it, whether they were friends or industry folks that we knew or do syncs. And we were like, “OK, cool. We feel like what we’re doing is something we’re really proud of. Now we don’t think who we are will get in the way of the quality of the art being appreciated.”
SIMMONS: It’s not just my weird or obvious situation. Vinnie, with his company, has to be delicate. He has a lot of high-profile clients, so there’s some stigma there about being involved in your own artist project when you’re managing other people’s careers. So, he wanted to be careful and delicate about the way he handled that, because he’s a professional.
But people were guessing who you were, and starting to get wise…
SIMMONS: Yeah, I think that was part of our decision: Just post about it and get it over with. … Vinnie and I are easy cringers; we cringe easily. So, anything that seems like it feels like we’re trying too hard, we’re like, “Let’s just make stuff that we like and just do it.” So, we just decided to just post [an announcement on social media]. We weren’t trying to be mysterious or make it a thing. … In the digital age, a lot of people don’t show pictures of themselves and don’t think twice about it, but yeah, a couple people on socials, through the algorithm or whatever, did put two and two together. I got a couple of DMs on the band account. A couple of people guessed who Vinnie was. I don’t even know how they put that together, but the band name is a play on our last names.
Did anyone guess wrong?
SIMMONS: Yes, a couple people! … Somebody was like, “Oh, I bet he’s the guy in Sleep Token.” And I was like, “No, definitely not, but they’re rad.” I’m definitely not the guy in Sleep Token.
There have been past cases of well-known artists, like Donnie Osmond or the Alarm, submitting their music anonymously to radio, as a white label or under a fake name, so that there wouldn’t be this preconception, and so programmers would give the song a chance — which they might not have if they knew who recorded it. I wonder if that mentality was at all behind hiding your identities — especially for Nick, because this isn’t a rock project, and people would probably assume you’d be in a hard rock band.
SIMMONS: Yeah, genre concerns are definitely part of it. We’re in a weirder lane than I think people expected from either of us. I mean, Vinnie is very enmeshed in a very mainstream pop world, big stadium shows and stuff, and it’s a very particular soundscape in those areas. And then of course, people expect me to be in a straight-ahead rock band. Vinnie and I have more eclectic tastes than that. We have a lot of different genre interests, and we didn’t feel like picking just one. We love artists like Beck and Bon Iver and these strange, can’t-put-your-finger-on-it-in-the-record-store lanes. So, we were like, “All right, maybe we just won’t engage with people who expect a certain thing from us.”
FERRA: The goal when we’re in the studio is, “Would we like this band and want to go see them play and buy their music?” That’s how we’ve operated for a really long time, and this is how we continue to operate. We don’t put ourselves in a box of a genre or anything else. We’re doing a collaboration right now with a friend [Dylan LeBlanc]. That music is very much in a genre that we love, and it’s completely different from the stuff we have out. But then we have songs like “No/bodies” that is very organic instrumentation: drums, bass, guitar, violin. And then we have songs like “Beg,” on which is every single instrument is electronic.
So, how many people within your circle knew you were Sym Fera? Nick, I’ve actually interviewed your sister, Sophie, who also does music that’s maybe not what would be expected of her, about this…
SIMMONS: She’s a powerhouse. She had to prove herself more than once because of that, because of what you just said.
So, did Sophie know about Sym Fera? Did your father know?
SIMMONS: We just had to make sure they didn’t blab. They definitely knew the whole time. In fact, my dad’s been wearing a hat with our logo on it for four years! He just didn’t tell anybody what it was. … That hat has gone for a very wild ride that I didn’t expect it to, and didn’t want it to necessarily. I think it’s in a picture with Flavor Flav or something. It’s not really what Vinnie and I pictured for our PR outreach, him taking that hat for a ride, but it was very sweet of him not to tell anybody. And now he’s telling everybody, of course! My sister helped me work on one of the songs, so she posted one as though it was an indie band that she’d worked with in her songwriting career; she writes for other people most of the time. And people were like, “Oh, it’s cool you’re working on an indie band, that’s great!” I begged them not to tell anybody, because I just wanted to see how people would like it on its own. We were pretty satisfied with that.
And your dad has a big mouth, which I say in the most affectionate way. He’s a talker, so it is pretty cool that he was able to keep your secret.
SIMMONS: Yeah, it’s the bane of my existence. [laughs]
I’ve interviewed a lot of second-generation artists — I literally interviewed Alexandra Richards, daughter of Keith Richards, this week — and some have told me that when they wanted to go into show business, their parents were like, “No, go to law school, go to medical school, be an accountant! This is a hard life!” And maybe some of their parents also anticipated there’d be pushback because of cries of nepotism or whatever. They were like, “Hey, kid, are you sure you really want to do this?” Nick, I wonder if you had any of those kind of conversations with your parents.
SIMMONS: No, I think they’re just like, “Do whatever makes you happy.” I don’t think they’re worried. I grew some pretty thick skin, pretty young. I think I cared a lot about pushback when I was a teenager, but you get used to it pretty quick. I don’t think I have anything to whine about. I have a great life. I don’t think I have anything to complain about. We have a lot of resources at our disposal and a lot of time to do this, so I don’t have any complaints, really. And they were just like, “You can do whatever you want to do.” They wanted me to go to college, which I did. They were like, “Don’t be an asshole and get your [good] grades, and pretty much whatever else is fine. Just be decent.” Pretty common-sense stuff.
FERRA: My dad was a musician and also built recording studios and stuff like that. In terms of the industry I work in, I grew up where everyone knew who my dad was because he was wiring and installation for a lot of the people I work with and a lot of the vendors I work with. That was really cool environment to grow up in. If I was interested in something musical, it was like, “Here you go. Here’s the instrument in your hands.” It was very nurturing.
SIMMONS: We were both very encouraged. I think a lot of people wince a lot at people being mean to me on the internet, but’s like, “Well, that’s the deal. You put yourself on the internet, and now people get to say what they think about it.” So, if everyone thinks you suck, they get to say that. You don’t have to read it all. And if you read it, you don’t have to take it that seriously. I always say if you take people criticizing you seriously, then you have to take your compliments seriously, and then you become a narcissist. So, I would say take both the compliments and the criticism with a grain of salt. I take criticism from people whose work I respect seriously, but to take it emotionally is a waste of time, I think.
You mentioned how maybe when you were younger didn’t have as thick a skin, so how did you develop that thick skin? You were on reality TV at a young age, in your teens.
SIMMONS: I’m mostly just glad I didn’t put out music around that time! Vinnie knew me around that time; we were jamming together. When you’re on a TV show, [labels are] like, “Here’s a record deal!” And I’m like, “Um, I don’t have any songs yet.” They’re like, “Don’t worry about it, we’ll figure it out.” That’s really not the way to do it, in my opinion. It’s an opportunity, but I think it would’ve been wrong. I don’t think that stuff would’ve been any good. People now are like, “Why’d you wait so long?” Well, because [my music] wasn’t any good then, and now I like it! … I mean, I wasn’t a terribly good singer. I was singing a lot in clubs and just trying to get better. But there’s these larval, formative stages where if you’re thrust into a camera situation right away, it’s very rare [that it’s good]. It takes the Billie Eilish/Lorde type of prodigy to be this sort of fully realized artist right away. Most people are more like me, where you try to mimic your heroes and you slowly but surely get better, but you suck for a long time. … I like that we got a chance to put our 10,000 hours in after [Gene Simmons’s Family Jewels], and didn’t take the easy deal that we could have taken for no reason other than they saw a chance to make a quick buck. I like it better this way. We put it out because it felt like it was good enough to put out, and no other reason.
So, there’s the relatively new term “nepo baby,” but cries of nepotism against people who grew up in the industry are nothing new. Obviously if you come from a certain background and have certain connections, you have advantages in the business, but I think it’s this fallacy that if you come from people in the industry or people who are famous, that everything is just handed to you.
SIMMONS: First of all, I want to make this clear: Vinnie is the opposite of a nepo baby. Vinnie’s the most self-made person I’m aware of. I want to make sure everyone knows that about him, because without his resources, this project would look very different. I mean, that logo behind him is his company, the Beehive, and he built it with his partner Johnny from the ground up, and now the biggest artists in the world rely on him. So, I’m riding his coattails a little bit more than anything! … But no, I think there is a lot of stuff that’s handed to you [as the son of a rock star]. I think mostly what’s handed to you is time to do what you want to do. That’s the biggest luxury of all, that you have a safety net and you’re not going to starve tomorrow. And in terms of me, my safety net is I was on a TV show for a long time and I got to earn income before I was spending on rent and stuff. It’s an incredible leg up, just right there. And your loved ones are like, “Don’t worry, you can pursue your dreams.” A lot of people don’t have the luxury of just pursuing their dreams all day. They have a day job. So, to try to diminish that or go, like, “No, I really worked really hard,” I think that it falls on deaf ears, because everybody else knows what it’s like to be a working adult. So, I’m kind of on the side of the people who criticize the nepo babies, personally, because they’re right in a lot of ways. It is very irritating when someone in my position not only wants their attention and money, but also wants them to like them! It’s obnoxious! … And to try to diminish it is obnoxious. I think that’s tone-deaf and silly. It would be silly to try to diminish the fact that even just not having credit card debt in any moment in your young life is a crazy leg up. Most people are living with debt day-to-day. Most people need a day job to get by day-to-day. I get to pursue music. It’s incredibly lucky. So, all that’s left is to not be a dick about how lucky you are and just move forward.
I appreciate that! So, I know Sym Fera have only played one official live gig, at the Lodge Room in Highland Park, and it was an invitation-only show where people had to lock away their phones…
SIMMONS: That was Vinnie’s idea. Vinnie was like, “Let’s just test this out and see if we have something here.”
FERRA: Apparently that’s an element of anxiety of mine. At least on my end, a big part we’ve kept it secret is I have a lot of insecurity around putting ourselves out there musically. I used to have a [solo] artist project I put everything into, and it didn’t go anywhere. I did it for a long time and put a lot of my blood, sweat, and tears into it. Nick is obviously a super-supportive music partner and he thinks the world of my music, and it’s always been so great to partner with someone who thinks that, but the rest of the world didn’t feel that way. So, it’s really risky putting yourself out there. I found it a lot less scary to just do it with no one knowing who I was or who we were.
SIMMONS: Honestly, people think the anonymity thing was my idea, but it was mostly Vinnie’s idea! He was like, “I just want to make this thing that is separate from me and has its own identity, and then I can make it exactly what I want it to be.” There’s a comfort in that. And I think still we both kind of miss it a little.
Well, it’s only been a few days since you revealed yourselves! You’ll get used to it.
SIMMONS: We’re both like, “Yeah, we shoulda have waited longer!”
Seriously, though, now that the announcement’s out, now that the genie out of the bottle and you can’t put it back in, how are you feeling?
FERRA: On my end, most of the people in my close circle and friends already knew, so not much has changed for me. … I think probably the biggest change is going to be for Nick, because Nick has much more significant social media presence and online presence as an individual than I do.
SIMMONS: People have been very nice, and I don’t really know how to deal with that, because negative stuff’s easier to ignore. People seem to be pretty encouraging, and they’re as weirded-out as I thought they’d be that I’m not in an AC/DC rock band gig thing. Which there’s no hate, of course — I mean, I grew up on that kind of music. There’s no hate there. My brother from another mother, Evan Stanley [son of KISS’s Paul Stanley] is in a straight-ahead rock band and he’s doing great and they are great. He just kind of led with it; he was like, “Yep, I’m doing the same thing that people want me to do, and here it is.” That was smart for him, because he’s in the genre that they’re expecting, so the right move for him was to lean into it. I’m kind of doing the exact opposite thing, so we should probably have the exact opposite strategy, of not leaning into it. But yeah, so far people have been very nice and supportive.
Speaking of different strategies, this project had its early success through film and TV syncs, which is completely different from KISS’s generation where it was about either radio or touring. That was a time when having your songs placed anywhere was considered “selling out.”
SIMMONS: Yeah, it’s funny. Within my twenties, I think, is when that changed. I remember when it was the Nirvana age, that sort of authenticity culture where if your song was in a commercial, it was like, “You’re done! We don’t respect you anymore!” And now it’s like, this is how young artists make a living. They need to make a living. Synching is a good way to do that. It’s an essential part of indie music culture, getting your songs in visual medium. Because one, I think TV is good now, or a lot of it; post-Sopranos and post Breaking Bad TV culture has upped the ante on how dramatic and weird it can get. And I think we just got over that. We realize that a lot of the people who are being helped by this are often not the Stones… a lot of these shows are breaking young, emerging bedroom-pop artists, because it suits the scene. It suits the mood. And that is kind of what happened to us. I mean, we got signed to a deal [with State of the Art Records] before they met us, and we got synched without them knowing who we were, a bunch of times. And that felt really good. These music supervisors just thought our song worked for their show. They’re not going to sabotage their own show on a song that doesn’t work just to do someone a favor, and they wouldn’t anyway. They had no idea who we are. So, it was incredibly satisfying and gratifying that we got synched and that people then Shazamed the syncs and found us and listened to us. It was just the purest form of the only reason we’re doing this. That’s kind of why we started talking about how we should just come out and do this [reveal announcement] now, because that was the evidence we wanted that maybe this is worth doing. Maybe we’re onto something here.
What do your parents think of this project, this music?
FERRA: My parents love the more organic songs. They love the stuff we’re doing with Dylan LeBlanc. They love “No/bodies” — well, my dad can’t understand what Nick is saying because he’s singing in falsetto voice! He goes, “Yeah, it’s not for me, but it sounds cool. I’m proud of you.”
SIMMONS: I can always tell when my parents don’t like something when they go specific with their praise. They’re always very supportive, but [my dad] will be like, “This is a great song,” so I go, “OK, he liked that one.” But then he’ll go, “I love the bass on that one,” and I think, “OK he hated that song.” Or he goes, “Very interesting,” and I go, “Yeah, that sucked; he hated that one.” He has a terrible poker face.