King Tuff, aka neo-psychedelic singer-songwriter Kyle Thomas, is a modern-day renaissance man. When he’s not fronting the stoner-rock band Witch, occasionally playing with Ty Segall, or focused on his solo career — recently releasing his sixth album MOO, a full-circle return to the lo-fi aesthetic of his early home recordings, on his own record label, MUP — he’s usually at his bunker in Vermont, drawing, painting, and pickling.
This master of the arts also an incredible webmaster, overseeing his animated-GIF-adorned online hub, kingtuffworld.net, which could easily be mistaken for the Space Jam website or a Wayback Machine redirect to a discarded GeoCities page. World Wide Web-surfers probably feel like they’ve stumbled onto the site via some Ask Jeeves portal, and they can practically hear the screech of a 28.8k modem or see toasters flying in the distance as they journey down Tuff’s information superhighway. But along the way, those lookie-loos will clean a lot more information than most artist’s modern websites offer — not just Tuff’s photography, artwork, and mostly self-directed music videos, but his likes and, more comically, dislikes, listed in the Papa Smurf-themed section called “Grandpa’s Complaint Corner.”
Grandpa Tuff may have plenty to complain about — “This world could be a lot nicer,” he tells LPTV, sitting at Studio City’s Licorice Pizza Records while signing copies of MOO — but he’s actually an exceedingly cheerful dude, living his best life. “You only live once, as they say. So, you’ve got to experience all you can,” he shrugs. In the delightful video above and edited text Q&A below, he discusses his return to both his rock roots and his home turf of Vermont, mixtapes, ice cream, tacos, pickles, cheese, and something that has nothing to do with food, “avocado baby voice.”
Come hang Tuff in Kyle’s corner.
LPTV: Your new, sixth album, MOO, seems like a full-circle affair. You were perhaps not totally comfortable with your last couple of records, and you wanted to return to your roots. You even recorded it on your old equipment from back in the day.
KING TUFF: Yes. I do like the last previous albums I’ve made, but I was kind of experimenting with my sound a little bit. And when it came time to playing those records live, it was hard to pull off because they had strings and pianos and stuff on them. When I’d be playing live, I just kind of wanted to play the rock songs, my earlier songs. So, I was like, “I’m just going to make an album that’s fun to play live.” And it’s also just the music that comes most natural to me — just fun, rock ‘n’ roll kind of music. So, I just decided to lean into that. And yeah, I went back to my Tascam 388, which is the tape machine I recorded on a lot of my early stuff on.
Your debut album from 2008 was recorded on that! Did it still work?
It didn’t work for about a decade. That’s why I hadn’t been using it. But I finally got it fixed, and instantly I just felt like myself again when I started working on it.
Is there something about that old equipment that the newer stuff just can’t replicate?
Yeah. I mean, it’s a pain in the ass to keep it working, but it just has a sound to it. Whereas recording on the computer, you have to work a little harder to make it sound cool, because it’s so clean and high-def that you have to put effects and plugins on it to make it sound cooler. With the tape machine, you put something in and it comes back sounding cooler.
What made you want to experiment sonically on your two previous albums, The Other and Smalltown Stardust?
Just boredom, really. I mean, you do something for a while and then you want to try something else. I have a lot of different musical influences, and I think a lot of artists want to see how far they can take their sound. I just write songs, and they come out the way they want to come out. And certain songs ask for certain things.
Were those albums well-received by your fans, or were fans like, “Hey, Tuffy, get back to your Tascam”?
Some people definitely were like that! But a lot of people are like, “Those are my favorite albums.” You can’t please everyone, so you just have to make something that is exciting to you. I just try and make the songs that I want to hear.
Are there any other ways in which MOO is a full-circle moment, in terms of the lyrics, what you’re writing about?
Definitely. It’s full-circle in also moving back to Vermont. Just the spirit of it, like falling back in love with a lot of the stuff I listened to as a teenager and in my early twenties, like ‘70s punk stuff. My early influences were like a lot of Modern Lovers and Television and Ramones, the classic stuff, and I hadn’t really listened to that stuff for a while. And then I got back into it and I started dating someone and we were making each other mixtapes, and it’s so fun. I was like, “I forgot how fun this is.”
What was on the mixtapes, if it’s not too personal to ask?
That’s a good question. I don’t remember. I’ve made her quite a few at this point!
That’s very sweet.
But yeah, I think I go into making albums like that, too — I want it to be like a mixtape where every song is good and is its own thing, and you can listen to it over and over again. That’s what I like about cassettes, too. It’s like a record, where it has sides. I think that’s the one thing that streaming doesn’t have. I’m into sides.
When you’re doing the sequencing for an album — or even before that, when you’re in the middle of recording it, even if it’s not on vinyl or cassette yet — do you mentally have in your head a Side A and a Side B? Do you think about when one side will end, and at what point the listener would flip over the tape or LP?
I mean, usually I like to treat each side as an A-side! So, you could either put on either side and it would sound like the beginning of a record, or sound exciting. The first song on Side B should sound sort of like a beginning again.
I like that K-Tel compilation vibe. Because, did you ever have experiences growing up where you bought an album because you liked one or two singles, but then you got the album and were like, “Oh my God, those were the only two good songs”?
Yeah, it’s weird when a band just has one song that’s so good. And then you’re like, “What happened to the rest? What happened here?” I want every song to be like candy that I want to eat over and over again.
Did you write a lot of songs for this record, or was it more like the songs you wrote are the ones that ended up on MOO?
Pretty much [the latter]. There’s maybe a couple extra ones, but yeah, it all came pretty quickly.
More quickly than usual?
Way quicker! I think that was partially due to working on the tape machine. I work a lot faster on that, because you just have to make decisions and you can’t labor over them. And yeah, I had a clear vision.
What was the vision?
Fun rock ‘n’ roll. Good songs. Keep it simple.
I dig it! You mentioned returning to Vermont [last year], where you grew up. I know you used to live in L.A., for over a decade. What made you go back?
I’d been thinking about going back ever since the pandemic, really. I really started to miss nature and the seasons, the extreme seasons. And also, the person I’m dating is also from Vermont. So, the fires last year kind of put us over the edge, and it just felt like a good time to go back.
How did Vermont inform this album?
Definitely a lot of the lyrical content is … I was kind of manifesting the move back, I think. There’s quite a few songs like “East of Ordinary,” “Backroads,” “Landline.” … I actually do need [a landline phone] now.
You live somewhere remote?
Yeah. And my [cell] phone doesn’t actually work most of the time.
It must be nice though, after being in a big city for so long.
Yeah. I basically traded a social life for trees. And I’m fine with that. I had gotten to the point in L.A. where I wasn’t leaving my house too much anyway, so I was like, “I might as well be surrounded by trees, if I’m in my house all the time.”
We’re talking a lot about going back to the past — your old equipment, your old sound, your old home state, et cetera. So, I have to ask you about your website! I love the whole ‘90s aesthetic, and I assume that was a choice. Because it’s a new website, after all.
I love that aesthetic too. I think you can treat a website like an art project, kind of. So, I have a bunch of random stuff on there, like…
“Grandpa’s Complaint Corner”! I want to ask about that, but go on.
And yeah, some of my photos and just artwork. I was really inspired by Wendy Carlos’s website, where she has a bunch of just random stuff.
Your site is so fun, especially “Grandpa’s Complaint Corner.” You are Grandpa, and you rant about very specific pet peeves.. One is “cursive voice,” which you also call “avocado baby voice,” which is basically people sort of singing like they’re from Iceland or just like doing weird mush-mouthed vowel stuff. Why does this bother you?
It’s a style of singing that has seemingly just infiltrated every corner of music, and I don’t know… it’s disgusting to me. I cannot listen to it. Maybe I’m just old and I don’t get it, but it makes me want to die. … I just hope it ends soon.
OK, another one of your music-specific complaints is the idea of being perfect in the studio, which ties into what we were discussing about the making of MOO. Why was that on your list of gripes?
I think especially with rock music, it should not be perfect. And I think this also goes hand-in-hand with recording on computers: You can make things “perfect,” and that just makes them boring. It’s similar with using AutoTune or something; it kind of makes everyone sound the same. And for me, it’s all about personality. I want to hear the personality in someone’s voice, even if they’re singing off-key. That is what I am drawn to, just somebody’s true personality. It’s just boring when it sounds like a robot.
“Grandpa” is also not a fan of bright LED lights.
Is anybody?? I don’t like overhead lighting. I like lamps. A lot of lamps. … I’m trying to push this idea of a lamp-lit supermarket. Can you imagine how relaxing that would be? You would actually go to the grocery store to relax.
I think when a store or office has bright lighting like that, they don’t want you to relax. They want you to just get your groceries and get out.
Yeah, maybe, I don’t know. This world could be a lot nicer and we need more lamps.
Well, speaking of groceries,, I felt your pain when browsing Grandpa’s Complaints, because mentioned your favorite discontinued desserts. I feel that way about Zima and several beauty products, like my favorite lipstick shades that got discontinued. But the things you’re upset about are Good Humor Toasted Almond Bars and Friendly’s Wattamelon Roll. These are a really specific complaints. You’re not just like, “Oh, I hate chewing loudly.” Well, you did say that, actually…
I do hate chewing loudly.
That is true. But I was fascinated by some of the specific complaints, because other artists’ websites just say, “Here’s my bio, here are my tour dates.” But I was deep-diving into these random sections of your dark web, and I was really into it.
Well, again, it’s like I want to show people who I am. I want to share what I’m thinking about. That’s what’s interesting to me to learn about other artists and stuff. But yeah, the desserts… Friendly’s, that’s like an East Coast chain. The Wattamelon Roll, it was incredible. It was like watermelon sherbet — not “sher-burt” — with chocolate chips in it. And then the rind was lemon-lime sherbet.
I’m trying to imagine chocolate chips with watermelon and lemon…
It sounds weird, but it was incredible. They changed it into a different form and it sucks now, and I’m just mad about it.
This happened with your favorite brand of cheese as well! You had a favorite brand of cheese that I’ve never heard of, called Seriously Sharp Cheddar Cheese, that apparently is no longer seriously sharp. False advertising.
Cabot Cheddar is actually close to where I live and I am a lifelong devotee. I still love Cabot. Shout-out Cabot. But they have this cheese called Seriously Sharp and I don’t know what’s going on, but it is not sharp anymore. And I wrote to them! I said, “What’s going on here?” And I got back a pretty bland response.
Much like the cheese itself.
They’re just like, “Every batch is different.” And I’m like, “No, no, it’s not. For decades it was the same and it was sharp and it was good.” And it’s still good, but it’s not sharp anymore.
Who do we have to escalate this to? We need to speak to the manager.
I might just have to go down there.
This is good marketing here. We’ll get these products happening again. But I don’t want to make this interview all about your complaints. If people want to see your other complaints, they should visit your website and check out Grandpa’s Complaints Corner. You like a lot of things as well.
Oh yeah, a lot!
I wrote down the things you like. It was also very random. Some of them, besides of course playing music, drawing, painting, and other design work, are driving the snowplow (I guess that’s why you moved back to Vermont), dogs, bowling, the forest, maple syrup, turtles (much like that “I like turtles” YouTube kid), and making ice cream. So, you could make your own Wattamelon Roll! You also like eating ice cream, root beer, and pickling your own homegrown cucumbers. You are a renaissance man of Vermont, aren’t you?
Yeah, I’m getting into some pickling. The first song I ever wrote was called “Pickle Boys,” so I gotta live up to that song.
How old were you when you wrote that?
Think I was in fifth grade, maybe.
Was it a very literal song about how you liked pickles, or was there some other metaphorical meaning to that?
No, it was just my love of pickles.
Are there any county-fair, blue-ribbon pickle contests in Vermont you’d like to enter?
I’m still working on my recipe, but I might get into some of that.
We’re talking a lot about food, but a lot of artists do go into that. Hanson have their own beer called Mmmhops. Alice Cooper has a line of hot sauces. Do you think about going into the food space?
Yeah, sure. I’m sure not making money from music, so I’ve got to start a pickle company.
Or an ice cream company.
Probably both.
Is that one of the reasons you also left L.A.? Because it’s so expensive to live here?
It definitely is cheaper in Vermont. My car insurance went less than half. And the gas is half. It’s much more manageable.
Is it a better space to create because of all of those things?
Definitely. And there’s no distractions. When I lived here, I would wake up and be like, “I guess I’d better get out there and meet some people or do something.” And now I’m just like, “There’s nothing going on!”
But is that ever a concern, that you need to be where the action is, networking or whatever?
Heavens, no! I can come to the city when I need to, get my fix, and then retreat back to the woods.
Well, since you’re back here for a day or two, when you come to Los Angeles, what are the things you miss?
Pretty much just tacos. Vermont has a lot going for it, but it doesn’t have great Mexican food.
I imagine that would be on Grandpa’s Complaint Corner too — you venting about the lack of good Mexican food in many parts of the world. What’s your favorite taco joint in L.A.?
I mean, got to shout out Villa’s.
Which was in the Super Bowl halftime!
Yes, I got very excited when I saw tha.t That was close to where I used to live. My OG that I first loved when I first came to L.A. was Taco Zone. The Asada Mulita at Taco Zone.
Well, I hope you get to have some Asada Mulita while you are here. What else do you have going on? Besides your website, your complaints, all your diverse interests, and of course getting ready to put out and tour MOO, what else are you focusing on these days?
I’ve just been doing a lot of artwork and making all the music videos.
You shoot them and direct them?
Yeah, for this record I’ve started doing that, and it’s been fun.
I know you do the cover artwork for your albums as well. So, the chicken-or-egg question I have about that is: Which comes first? The artwork or the music? Do you think about the artwork while you’re making the music?
I’d say it’s always different, but a lot of times one will kind of inform the other. I switch back and forth a lot. So, if I’m in a songwriting mode, sometimes I’ll get ideas for a painting, and then I’ll start painting and I’ll think of songs. It kind of goes back and forth that way.
You’re a renaissance man. King Tuff of Vermont.
I do what I can. You gotta live. You only live once, as they say. So, you’ve got to experience all you can.
