Genre-fluid musician and multimedia artist Mz Neon may be preparing to release her debut album, Maximaschina, but she’s already lived many lifetimes of rock-star adventures. As a queer misfit and self-described former “femme-boy” who started playing music at age 5, she found her tribe in her native Boston’s alternative scene (once even winning a Dicky Barrett-judged WBCN Battle of the Bands contest and touring with the Mighty Mighty Bosstones), before making her way to the glam/punk capital of the East Coast, New York City. There, she worked at Patricia Field’s iconic boutique alongside Amanda Lepore, did styling for Sex and the City, and was discovered by electroclash godfather Larry Tee, before she formally transitioned in 2016 and eventually headed west to become a darling of Los Angeles club circuit. And along her journey, Neon has worked with the likes of Lydia Lunch, L7’s Jennifer Finch, Poppy, Surfbort, Marc Almond, My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult, and even Linda Perry, with whom she cowrote her forthcoming single “Sex Bomb.”
It’s the sort of blossoming career that wouldn’t have been possible for trans musicians a generation ago (or maybe even just decade ago), and Neon is deeply grateful for all of these opportunities — including her upcoming run on acid house/industrial cult legends Lords of Acid’s Cheeky Freaky U.S. tour with Princess Superstar and Tony & the Kiki. But in the fraught year of 2026, this tour places her right in the line of fire, with several shows in red states like Texas and Florida — where it could be considered illegal and even punishable by jail time or sex-offender charges, under “existentially terrifying” and vaguely worded cabaret laws, if she performs for all-ages audiences.
“As someone who’s from the punk-rock and Goth scenes — and part of the reason why I felt simpatico with those scenes was because of the freedom of expression and playing with gender — I think that everyone should really consider how serious the implications are. It’s not just about trans people,” Neon tells Lyndsanity. “It’s about everyone that’s in a subculture scene — and beyond that, basic freedoms of expression. So, whatever I can do to call attention to it and be safe for myself in the meantime, and try to make things safer for other people … it’s not my obligation, but I feel like it is, if I have this opportunity.”
While Neon admits that it can be frustrating to be mainly defined as a trans artist, she realizes in this moment that her very “identity is political,” and that by being as visible as possible, she could help foster change. “I could be a gateway. It’s not frivolous for people like me to be doing what I’m doing,” she stresses. That’s why Neon won’t be changing much about her wild live show — “I’m actually doubling down on the bitch that I am!” she laughs — although she will be mindful of how she dresses and presents herself when she’s traveling through conservative parts of the country where she’s “not as insulated.” (Ironically, she thinks her hyper-feminine, blonde-bombshell style will work to her advantage in Texas, where she jokes she can “kind of pass as an evangelical trophy wife at a glance.”)
“I’m leaning into some patriotic imagery on this tour because I do think that I am the American dream,” Neon states. “Yes, this country has plenty of criticisms and we should be as vocal about that as ever, but I am that person that should be exemplified like anyone else. … I’m making the point that my freedom is everyone’s freedom. If they’re able to take away my freedoms, that does come back to you. … [Trans people] are always the warriors on the front line. So, whatever awareness I can bring to this, I’m happy to.”
Mz Neon will be self-releasing a new single, “Queen Hyena,” to coincide with the Cheeky Freak tour (pre-save it here), but she’s holding off on unleashing Maximaschina — particular the Perry co-write “Sex Bomb,” which she believes has pop-crossover potential, and an “evangelical Christian diss track” called “Abomination,” because she feels that controversial song could make her a target — until she has record-label support and infrastructure behind her. She acknowledges that it’s “a very weird climate for the type of artist that I am,” and admits, “It’s been tougher than I would’ve thought to get the support around this record, but I’m a relentless bitch. … And for the right record label, I am their Madonna. I think the right label getting behind someone like me is really the move, and the kind of statement that someone should want to make.”
In the fascinating, in-depth, and wide-ranging video chat above, and in the edited Q&A below, Mz Neon opens up about her concerns about her upcoming tour (and her concerns for queer kids and the United States in general); her new album, which veers from her past rap style into genres ranging from dancehall to trip-hop to country; the “prison” of male privilege and why it’s actually masculine to protect people who are more vulnerable; and why, even though she “identifies as a Luciferian,” she believes being trans is a “blessing” and “God’s plan” for her, because “trans people are here to teach humanity about humanity.”
LYNDSANITY: Your last major U.S. tour was four years ago with Poppy, and much has sadly changed in our country since then. In 2023, a lot of anti-trans legislation started being proposed, and it just never let up from there. So, what’s going through your mind as you prepare to go back on the road, passing through a lot of red states, in the year 2026?
MZ NEON: Well, so many things. Overwhelmingly, I’m grateful for the opportunity… because prior to going on tour with Poppy, I’d only mostly done the “coastal elite” circuit. I’d never been to parts of the Midwest and the South. And I was so pleasantly surprised. The reception was so positive and so seamless. That tour was pretty much all-ages crowds… and I connected with that younger audience so deeply. The feedback I heard from these younger kids especially was so profound, in that I know what visibility means and to feel seen. Cut to now, and it’s pretty much illegal in most of these states to perform in front of all-ages audiences. And that is disheartening, to say the least.
Are you worried for your personal safety?
My safety concerns on this tour are largely existential, I would say. … The stuff I was nervous about the first tour all ended up being fine; I found that people are really, really nice. It’s the internet that kind of radicalizes a lot of people. I try to move through the world gracefully — except when I’m onstage! — but I’m aware of my privilege. I’m white-passing as well is cis-passing, but anything could happen. Some of these laws are pretty existentially terrifying, because people are really scrutinizing and looking for excuses. I mean, we could get more into what some of those laws are.
I did actually want to ask about “cabaret laws.” I wonder if there’s anything you plan to tone down or change, so that your show won’t be considered a “vulgar” act. Can you explain to me what the legal ramifications are?
Cabaret laws are purposefully written really vaguely, and they really started rolling out under the auspices of drag bans. And the way that they word “drag” and now more broadly “cabaret,” what falls into that category is what they deem anything that is a “gender presentation other than their birth sex.” I’m not a drag queen, but I’m a trans woman — and it’s not like a costume I can just take off. So, they’re basically trying to categorize all trans performers as adult acts that we might otherwise see in a designated place like a strip club.
And that would be the case even if you weren’t as glammed up as you normally are, like if you were onstage in a T-shirt and jeans with an acoustic guitar playing folk music, right? Would even that sort of act also fall under this definition, simply because you’re trans?
The thing about this that’s so existentially terrifying is that yes, it could. … The intentional vagueness of it is what is worrisome. I’m [touring] with artists that are mostly cis and the crowds are going to be very mixed, and I’m not in the least bit worried about the company that I’m keeping on this tour; they’re amazing, and I’m sure their crowds are going to be great. But all it takes is one person at a show to feel a type of way. And I feel like it’s worth [discussing this] because it is also so broad as to apply to cis performers that are “sexy” in some way. All these trans laws are just moving the goalposts for broader misogyny, gender-policing, expression-policing on opposite sides of the spectrum. It’s policing hyper-feminine men and masculine-presenting women, and not even trans men, but butch women.
I know Ohio [where Mz Neon is playing one Cheeky Freaky date, at Lakewood’s Mercury Music Lounge] is a state that has a lot of eyes on it right now — that’s trying to really make a statement about this, and trying to say more broadly that there could be penalties for these types of gender expressions in general, in public. As someone who’s from the punk-rock and Goth scenes — and part of the reason why I felt simpatico with those scenes was because of the freedom of expression and playing with gender — I think that everyone should really consider how serious the implications are. It’s not just about trans people or drag queens. It’s about everyone that’s in a subculture scene — and beyond that, basic freedoms of expression and how they scapegoat us and use us to create a permission structure for that kind of thing. So, I’m less worried about something happening to me, although it is a concern, but I do think this is an opportunity to create awareness around these issues, if possible.
Obviously it would be awful these laws specifically targeted only trans or drag performers, but the vagueness is indeed concerning. For instance, that Ohio bill includes “anyone who exhibits a gender identity different from their biological sex through the use of makeup, prosthetics, clothing, imitation genitals or breasts.” And there could be penalties ranging from first-degree misdemeanor to fourth-degree felony. So, theoretically, this could apply to an emo boy with guyliner and skinny jeans, a rocker dude with long hair, a tomboy with a pixie cut. Did you think about this as you were planning to go on a nationwide tour with an envelope-pushing group like Lords of Acid — like, maybe this isn’t the time to do it, or maybe you should only play in certain cities?
[States like Florida and Texas] are the ones that need someone like me that much more. It’s a call to action for me. This is the type of activism that I can bring and the visibility and the representation that these kids need. And just the escapism. I mean, I’m not defined by being a trans artist. Obviously, these conversations and concerns are coming up so much more now, and it’s frustrating for me because I don’t want to be defined by that. But I want to speak to it because I have a warrior spirit and I’m from a generation where when I was growing up as a kid, I didn’t even know that being trans was a possibility. So, we’ve been through worse. Things have gotten a lot better, but simultaneously there’s a much bigger microscope on us. A lot of trans people in the past just flew under the radar, and it’s complicated to get into all that.
But my tour partner that I’m going out on the road with is really great. I do genuinely feel like my team and the people I’m going to be out there with have my back, and I’m grateful for them to ask me to do this. And since Trump got into his presidency, since all this stuff happened, my experience is hearkening back to meeting all these kids and all these people in these states… it’s like, I want to do something to be there for them. And I know it’s extremely privileged to just go in and out and make a whole thing about it, but a lot of these people can’t make anything about it. So, whatever I can do to call attention to it and be safe for myself in the meantime, and try to make things safer for other people … it’s not my obligation, but I feel like it is, if I have this opportunity. I do have thoughts about using restrooms and all that kind of stuff — that’s where I’m not as insulated, you know? And I’ve thought about having different sets that I play in different states that are maybe a little bit more palatable for me.
I am curious about how you might tailor your show from state to state or venue to venue.
I’m definitely cognizant of that. I’m also on a bill with Lords of Acid and a bunch of really sex-positive, really sexy acts! And I’m a sexy performer. I’m not going to be doing anything beyond what would be protocol for me as an artist or being on this tour. More of my considerations are just the day-to-day stuff …. my biggest safety concerns are not in the venues, but everywhere in between. … [I am considering] toning down my look slightly [in public], even wearing more questionably coded things like an American flag scarf. I do think I read more just like a subculture/punk-rock girl or whatever. But ironically, in Texas… I think I pass more than in most places, because the female archetype there is so hyper-feminine, at least with the blonde hair. I feel like I kind of pass as an evangelical trophy wife at a glance. That’s kind of fun.
photo courtesy of Mz Neon
“Evangelical Trophy Wife” would be a good song title, actually.
As a visual artist and a stylist, I have to have fun with it sometimes and think, “OK this is a role. What’s the role I’m taking on? What’s my story? What’s she about?” I got this [cowboy hat] in Texas on the last tour, and I’m definitely bringing in it on this one. “Oh, I’m just visiting from the ranch and I’m here antiquing with my nephew.” Who knows? I have to try to make it fun, but also call attention to that it’s pretty serious. I just think that it’s hard enough being a touring musician when you’re not super-established like Kim Petras or Ethel Cain or someone like that. I’m sure they have concerns too, but they have a lot more infrastructure.
I just don’t think most people think about the basic freedoms of their movement being policed. It’s kind of wild. Like, OK, so I can’t use a woman’s restroom. Do you genuinely think I’m going to use a men’s room? The path of least resistance is me breaking the law, because something worse might happen with me using a men’s room, with my physical safety. When I’ve seen instances of trans people abiding by the law, it always causes more chaos than it would if they’d just [used their preferred bathroom]. It’s one of those Catch-22 things that [conservative lawmakers] do on purpose, because they’re basically baiting trans people to break the law, and making it such that now prisons are forcibly detransitioning people, and it’s this whole pipeline. It sounds really outrageous and hyperbolic, but it’s not. I mean, the state of Kansas just revoked every trans person’s driver’s license.
Did you grow up in a conservative or religious environment?
Yes and no. I did grow up Catholic, and in the time I grew up, there wasn’t much known about what I was. … I always found my escapes when I was younger in visual art, which still is the case. I was always the best artist in class, so I got my roses in that department. Later on, it was music and performing in bands, and part of that for me was being able to express an androgynous performance and play with my gender onstage and have context for that. I was always subject to the types of teasing and gesturing and bullying and all that type of stuff, but thankfully I always made friends with the older punk-rock girls that had my back, and I made my way and found my way. … My parents aren’t conservative people, but they didn’t have the tools to support me at that time, and it was definitely a contentious thing for us — and the culture, broadly. I know they would have [supported me], if they knew then what they know now. Now I’m so lucky to have their support and we’re so, so close. And a lot of people don’t have that.
Yes, you are fortunate. The reason I asked about that was I thought maybe that background would lend you some insight as to why religious right, and the right in general, are so obsessed with trans people, and hyper-focuses on a demographic that’s actually quite small, like 1 percent of the U.S. population. Why is this such a hot-button topic?
There’s so many things, but I think in their dogma, we are “playing God,” essentially. We’re not following the prescribed paths that they want us to follow. And not to get too philosophical or esoteric, but earlier incarnations of Christianity, such as Gnosticism and more ancient paths and pagan paths and non-dogmatic Christian paths, have more self-determination built into them. That’s not the ethos of hypervigilant Christian institutions — their whole thing is patriarchy and controlling women and policing gender roles. So, we’re a threat to the status quo. Genuinely, that’s really what it is. And we represent self-determination and making our own choices and showing that we can be sovereign and autonomous. The thing is, we don’t have as many trans elders in our culture as we really should. … It was so much harder to transition back then. You basically had to be extremely passing, and a lot of people chose not to even be out. So, a lot of the elder trans people, especially elder trans women, aren’t coming forward because their safety has been compromised by having to live stealth.
And I wanted to say something about the religious thing for me. My experience being trans, has always had a spiritual sort of motivation for me. And not to get too carried away with that train of thought, but for lack of a better word, this was God’s plan for me. And I think that trans people are here to teach humanity about humanity. Especially cis men and women are always so confused about [each other’s differences]. We are so confused. I could literally tell you! I know how men think. I wasn’t born a woman, but being hormonally female is wild — the changes that happen beyond the physical are really truly transcendent. We [trans people] experience and see some of the worst aspects of humanity, that I always try to alchemize into compassion and understanding and seeing that if Jesus was real, he would be a trans person. Our plight is that of a Christ-like walk of life. We do carry and bear a cross. All the things that Jesus went through are the things that we went through and go through, especially now. The way that Christianity is being used to promote hatred against people is the most un-Christ-like thing you can imagine. And I say that as someone who identifies as a Luciferian! I think that there is a way to look at a Christ-like way of life through a Luciferian lens and see that light and truth are not in opposition to compassion and empathy. I think we exemplify the human experience in so many ways because we live it. I think it’s a blessing to have that opportunity, to have this much insight into what it means to be a fucking human person.
Wow. That’s an amazing viewpoint. I want to ask you about my own theory about why trans people — specifically trans women — are reviled and persecuted so much. You’ve said that your ultimate dream isn’t for transness to be tolerated, or even accepted, but celebrated and seen as sexy and hot. And you obviously have a lot of sexiness in your live shows. I wonder if a lot of the hate that some cis, straight men have for trans women comes from them being uncomfortable with the secret attraction they feel, and what those forbidden feelings might say about their sexuality or masculinity.
I think that’s one of the if not the biggest barrier to our equality — that very issue. And it’s so complicated, and so simple. There’s an outdated stigma that being with trans women is “gay.” And sure, a guy could be bisexual, he could be into men and women, but I date straight men. … And I only date men that are past the point of having issues around these types of things. But the stigma is so real. And it often isn’t so much how [cis, straight men] feel about it. They don’t give a fuck. But they give a fuck about what their friends think. They give a fuck about what their communities think. They can’t take on that kind of stigma. And that’s the biggest, I think, barrier in preventing us from being seen as women and as equal. Yeah, we’re not cis women, but we are under the female spectrum. You don’t have to date or be attracted to trans women. It’s not to say that all cis, straight guys are attracted to trans women. But a lot of them are. And it’s like anything that gets repressed — it turns into a demon. Look at the stats around who consumes trans porn, and in what areas. It’s mostly predominantly red states, because they’re so closeted about it.
And when I say that it’s so simple, it’s just that I’ve had men talk to me in private, like, “I’m in love with a trans girl. How do I come out to my friends and family?” I think the best thing you can do is not come out, and affirm that you’re a straight guy and there’s nothing queer about you. I mean, if you want to identify as queer and you really genuinely feel queer, OK, but it’s not intrinsically queer [to date a trans woman]. I think it’s just normalizing that and being a man and having your woman’s back and saying, “Oh, this is my girlfriend.” If she’s open about being trans and it comes up, then, “Oh yeah, she’s trans and she’s my girlfriend and I’m a straight guy.” It’s just owning that. And the last thing I’ll say on this for now is a lot of men have these attractions, but they don’t talk about it with their guy friends, so they all think that they’re the only straight guy that’s ever had an attraction to a trans girl and that they’re a freak and something’s wrong with them. But six out of 10 of their closest friends probably do too, and they just don’t talk about it with each other because of that stigma. It’s as simple as normalizing that. I think a lot of men won’t step out of line in their social circles, or the ones that do might be ostracized. And that’s really sad. I think that’s so unmasculine. To protect those that are vulnerable is a masculine quality, to stand up for what’s right and own who the fuck you are.
It seems a lot of people are scared of trans people, and I don’t understand where the fear comes from.
I think that most people just lack the experience with a trans person, to [see] our humanity. I think something that could help people understand is this is just how interracial couples [were viewed] at a certain time. I come from an interracial family. My dad is Dominican, and he’s dark-skinned. My mom is white, French. And I think that might contribute to why my parents [are accepting], because when they got together in the ’60s, that was kind of radical. … There was a time in our past, and there still is in a lot of places and cultures, where interracial dating was a huge thing, and I think that can help people understand that this is just being part of being cultured and part of our humanity — integrating with people. Like I said, I think [trans people] are put here to help people have empathy and have understanding and live Christ’s fucking values, if you really want to go there. We are a vessel for that, absolutely.
And I try to be aware of that when I’m on tour and I’m at rest stops or thrift stores or whatever. I always attract attention for how I look more than anything, even especially when I’m not trying to, but I always genuinely enjoy having nice, pleasant, really everyday human experiences with people on the road, because I think people are generally cool. And if someone has an experience with me on the road in a small town — like, there’s an old lady and she might be religious or something, and she’s maybe never met a trans person and has this idea of what trans people are — she can have something to take to her community. She can say, “Oh, I met a trans girl, and she was really nice.” As edgy and crazy and whatever the fuck I am onstage and with my whole brand, I do think I’m relatable and approachable. And I don’t do respectability politics, but…
What are respectability politics? Sorry, but I’m not totally familiar with that term.
This goes more into a racial sort of demographic, like, “Don’t act that way around the white folk and be extra this or capitulate to the white gays” and all this stuff, which is something that my Dominican side of the family deals with. It’s a whole thing. There’s a lot of criticism about that these days, rightfully so, that capitulating and being a pick-me and all these types of things is not good, and I agree. But I coined the term “relatability politics” for myself, because I’m not changing who I am at all. I’m actually doubling down on the bitch that I am! But I can also be in my own way relatable because I’ve always had to teach people how to love me, how to accept me, and navigate through social situations that weren’t stacked in my favor by being funny. Humor does a lot, but it’s disarming to be kind too. Not to say that that’s always going to work or always the tactic, but I try to use my privilege in such a way to move through the world with as much kindness as I can, to relate to people and show them my humanity.
Because that’s how we’re being weaponized and scapegoated by these religious institutions and the language around “mutilation” and this, that, and the other thing. … “Transgenderism” is not a real word. A lot of these terms aim to dehumanize us in small ways. There’s so many conversations about us being had, without us in the room. So many people are speaking about our intentions or purposefully misrepresenting us. I did this sort of jubilee-esque YouTube thing one time that got taken off the internet and I can’t legally show now, but it was about trans people in sports, and they were just feeding us all these rage-bait questions. One of the questions was, “Are you for or against LeBron James dressing as a woman to play women’s sports?” And I’m just like, “Um, that’s not a trans person.”
Yeah, that’s like the plot of some old comedy like Bosom Buddies, or Some Like It Hot, or Tootsie. Cross-dressing to game the system in some way.
Yeah, give me real instances of this happening, not for rage-bait purposes. These aren’t real things. It’s so intentional. And we’re just trying to move through the world. We are, if anything, not trying to call attention to ourselves and do crazy shit, because the penalties that fall upon us are so much harsher than for other people. The same goes with all these fake statistics about immigrants committing crime. Do you think [immigrants] want that attention on them? They’re trying to live here and fucking make a living. We’re all just trying to live the American dream. I’m leaning into some patriotic imagery on this tour because I do think that I am the American dream. Yes, this country has plenty of criticisms and we should be as vocal about that as ever, but I am that person that should be exemplified like anyone else. I don’t think that they can gatekeep patriotism, as much as it is cringe. I also think I’m making the point that my freedom is everyone’s freedom. If they’re able to take away my freedoms, that does come back to you. And unfortunately, people don’t care about things, a lot of the time, until it happens to them. … [Trans people] are always the warriors on the front line. So, whatever awareness I can bring to this, I’m happy to.
I like that you said that you’re the American dream, because despite how tough it is right now, the kind of career you have as a biracial trans woman would not have existed for the generation before you. You’re blazing a trail. I remember you saying during an interview we did in 2022 that at one time you’d assumed you couldn’t have a mainstream pop career, simply because you are trans. And then things have started change with Kim Petras, who actually won a Grammy; the late SOPHIE, who was Grammy-nominated and was a huge producer on her way to doing even bigger things; Arca, who I saw at Coachella last year; Ethel Cain, Cavetown. And then there are some artists that came out later, like Laura Jane Grace, Ela Melo from Rainbow Kitten Surprise, Anohni, Jenni Rose from Vandoliers, Ezra Furman, Teddy Geiger. But do you worry, as you’re shopping for a record label deal for Maximaschina, that these doors that have only recently started opening for trans artists are already closing again? Are you worried about how the shifting political climate could affect your chances of pop success?
For sure. It’s been tougher than I would’ve thought to get the support around this record, but I’m a relentless bitch. The only reason why I’m not self-releasing it, which I have done in the past, is basically because there’s so much policing and censorship over trans content generally. When I’ve tried to self-release things… I’ve gotten penalized for even boosting my own ad for a single where I’m wearing a bikini on the cover. And now all of these major social media companies have capitulated to all these right-wing ethos: Where there were once protections against hate speech, now they expressly allow it. So, it’s really hard because I have built this platform… and a tiny fraction of those [followers] see what I do. … So, I’m getting out there on the road, because it’s an organic opportunity to reach people and build an organic listener base of people are wanting to connect. … I’m also aware that I don’t fit neatly in a box outside of my transness. I’ve always been a genre-fluid artist or whatever. I think the world is kind of catching up to me a lot in that respect, which is good. … I think I am kind of a crossover artist, in that I am experimental in my process, but I write songs, and working with people like Linda Perry has been so expansive to my songwriting. And for the right record label, I am their Madonna. I think the right label getting behind someone like me is really the move, and the kind of statement that someone should want to make.
I’m going to keep doing it regardless. I’ve never waited around for someone’s approval to move forward with what I need to do with my life. But I also do feel that support from the industry would be great to have. And I’m a little bit older and I think I always have age dysphoria; I can only make so many examples of things in my career, but one of them is being a little bit older. And I think that that’s an asset. I’m not going to blow all my money on cocaine. I can be crazy in other ways, but I think I’m prime for what I’m doing at this time.
I definitely want to ask about the Linda Perry song, “Sex Bomb.” It’s a bit Goth, in a Placebo kind of way, and there’s a bit of Rocky Horror theatricality too. How did this collaboration happen?
That was such an amazing opportunity. I had the great fortune of having Linda as my manager for about a year around 2022, and during that time, we wrote that song together. It actually came out of her asking me what my artist’s statement was. I made it into this poetic prose thing, and I was like, “Sorry if this is too abstract or artsy. I can boil it down into something more traditional if you want.” And she was like, “No, this is great! We should write a song based on this!” I learned so much from her and from that experience. … She’s just such a real person. She’s really, really real and very blunt and straightforward, and she’s from the East Coast like me. She asked me to open for one of the 4 Non Blondes reunion dates in December, kind of out of the blue, and I was just like, “She’s a real one.”
You just mentioned Madonna, who was such a trailblazer back in the day, supporting the LGBTQ+ community when very few other mainstream pop stars were. And on your upcoming album, you cover Madonna’s “Deeper and Deeper,” from her especially sexual Erotica era, as a bonus track. Why did you decide to record that song? I was really happy to hear it, because I think it’s one of her forgotten singles, and it’s a great version.
Thank you! I always thought that song was great, and I feel like it’s kind of unexpected, yet it’s also the most obvious thing in the world for me to cover Madonna. I grew up with her, and she was such a huge impact on me as a little boy. That was one of the first instances of seeing a version of myself. I didn’t have that archetype or even know what that was, but with Madonna it was like, “That’s me. That’s what I want to be.” And then as I got older and got more into punk rock and subversive music and black metal and industrial and all these other things, it still does come back around to that for me. I ultimately feel like I’d want to be the punk-rock Madonna. And I want to work with her. I want to meet her. I think she’s amazing. Maybe I can get her attention by covering this song, low-key. I was kind of thinking that. But I also love ’90s Britpop and bands like Republica, and I was channeling some of that production style, making it sort of noisy and cyberpunk.
It’s really interesting that you mentioned that Madonna awakening something in you, because Laura Jane Grace’s autobiography begins with Laura seeing Madonna’s “Material Girl” video on MTV and experiencing a similar gender-euphoria epiphany.
I think that’s the power of, for lack of a better word, celebrity. I think it’s often used like a dirty word, and yeah, a lot of times it’s just a fucking capitalist bullshit system of selling products. But for me, and what I’ve seen on tour, what I now can offer to the younger generation is a sense of feeling seen, and seeing yourself in someone else. Not necessarily the cliche of, “Oh, you could do it too!” It doesn’t always work like that, although it can motivate people that are called to [entertain] to say, “Oh, there’s a place for me in this.” But also, just that there’s a bitch like me out there, or the attitude that I bring to my life. I gravitated to that rock-star archetype because that’s probably the only place where I make sense and honestly feel normal. I think I’m a synthesis of a lot of different archetypes. I mean, he’s problematic now, but to say the least, when I was very young and Marilyn Manson came out, that was another archetype: makeup-wearing, androgyny. All these things that led me to Skinny Puppy and Goth culture and other things. People are a gateway. So, I could be a gateway. It’s not frivolous for people like me to be doing what I’m doing. It’s not frivolous for Madonna. There is inspiration that, I think, transcends just being a show-person.
You’re still looking for a label deal, but you are releasing an independent single to coincide with this Lords of Acid tour, “Queen Hyena.” There is a lot of symbolism there, and I find interesting and amusing that you’ve sort made the hyena your spirit animal. Can you explain why?
I think that’s such a timely question in the spirit of archetypes because yeah, the hyena is sort of my performer archetype. … Hyenas are a very anomalous species, but they’re matriarchal and the female hyenas are, for lack of a better word, intersex to some degree. Their genitalia is phallic. So, they are quite literally like chicks with dicks. And they are dominant and they are terrifying and they rule the fucking pack, and the men serve them. They are the quintessential transfemme of the animal kingdom. That’s where my artist persona can separate a little bit. I am a domme at life. I wouldn’t say that carries into every aspect of my life, as it’s a little exhausting to be dominant all the time, but that is my persona. That’s my spirit animal. So, for obvious reasons, that’s why I identify with that animal. And you don’t want to fuck with the hyena. They will fucking eat your face and they’re also cannibalistic. So, a man who crosses their path is not going to fare well, and let that be a lesson.
Are there any other songs from Maximaschina you’d like to preview? Several titles stood out to me, like “Come for the Doll,” “Secret Girl,” and “Abomination.”
“Abomination” was actually my plan for the debut single, and I shot a beautiful, beautiful video for it with an amazing trans video director. I actually wrote that song almost three or four years ago at this point. I’m only sitting on it because of NSPM-7 and these new speech policy things that are targeting anti-Christian, pro-trans [content]. Everything I say in this song is a target. I probably already have a couple Ops following me, I don’t know. But I want to wait till I have label support to put that song out, because I do think it’s that much more important to put a song like that out. It is a basically an evangelical Christian diss track.
Can you explain what NSPM-7 is?
There’s a protocol. It’s more than an executive order. And it targets more than just trans people. Everyone should look it up, but it does put people basically on lists for speaking out about political things… which applies to a lot of stuff, like being a trans activist, being anti-ICE, any persuasions that are basically leftist, trans, and/or anti-Christian. And that [song] talks about all those things, which is all the more reason why it should be out there. But I worry that it would just get me that much more shadow-banned and buried, in the beginning of me trying to roll out a campaign. I want to make sure that song actually has the best visibility that it could have. The lyric is like, “I didn’t ask to be born a heretic, but I’m fucking out here, baby, and I’m loving it.” And the chorus is: “I’m a proud abomination, hail Satan, self-love is freedom.” And OK, sure, if [“abomination”] is your idea of a slur, there’s worse things to be. I’d rather be an abomination than a fucking cuck.
But my next single likely is going to be a song called “Go On.” I think it’s going to be a really timely follow-up. That song is about just internet discourse and people talking about things they don’t have that much information about. … It’s also about having compassion for the exhaustion of having to pay such close attention to these issues all the time, sort of talking to my inner child or to someone else in my community and saying: “Baby, it’s all right if you don’t want to fight for your rights today. It’s OK if you just want to live your best life, honey.” The song “Secret Girl” is a lot about what we were saying about dating and being a secret — and refusing to do that. … There are a lot of softer moments on this album that I think people will be surprised about. There’s some country stuff, some reggae and dancehall kind of stuff, some trip-hop stuff, and some almost ballad-y stuff on this record. I’m really excited to put this out in the world, because I’m already writing the next record right now and getting excited about moving on.
photo courtesy of Mz Neon
I know you’d like to get to a point in your career where you’re not known as just a trans artist, when that wouldn’t even be the most talked-about or most interesting thing about you. But obviously, as you say, it’s important to talk about it right now. Do you consider that making music as Mz Neon is an inherently political act?
Of course it is. Lately, I’ve been having these fantasies about being apolitical, like, “Wow, what’s that like?” Politics is baked into everything. It’s inescapable, and I don’t have a choice. My identity is political. Most of my album is not about being trans, and I think that’s an important evolution of what I’m doing. I think when I came out with my first couple songs — similar to how Courtney Love used to talk about her first record and said, “I’m announcing myself as a bitch,” which was a political thing to be as woman artist of that time — I was making a statement about, “OK someone’s got to do this. Someone’s gotta just come out the gate about this shit so that it’s not a thing.” But here we are, and it is what it is. I’ve had some people say to me, “I just want to see you as an artist without the ‘trans’ thing associated with you.” And I’m like, “Same!” That’s ultimately what I think I am. I’m an artist. I do my own photography for my album covers, I direct a lot of my own videos, I do my own costuming, and I have all these other things that I do. I’m a compulsive creative. But being what I am, in this climate, is what it is.
But I also think I’m well-positioned to talk about it, so I’ll step up to that plate because not everyone can — or should! Sometimes it’s frustrating when I hear men straight, cis men, especially white men, being like, “Oh, I’m apolitical.” Well, you have the luxury of being apolitical, but you’re actually not, because politics do affect you. And the second that they ban Viagra, you’re going to be political, you know what I mean? But ultimately, don’t we all want to be apolitical, ideally? I don’t know. I can’t escape it. And some trans people are living stealth or living in places where being as outspoken as I am is a lot more dangerous for them than it is for me, so if I can help create a more climate that supports all people and makes me as a trans artist be less novel, I would love that. I would love to just have misogyny, you know what I mean? Obviously I’m being cheeky, but it’s like, most trans women work really hard to just experience normal everyday misogyny — and that says a lot! And that’s not to make light of misogyny, but it’s like, we don’t give up our male privilege for nothing.
Yes, if someone transitions from male to female, and then openly lives their life as a trans woman and voluntarily gives up all that male privilege, obviously this isn’t a “lifestyle,” or a fashion thing, or an impulsive decision.
One-hundred percent. And you know, even more so now after transitioning, I have so much empathy for men. Because the male privilege system in and of itself is a prison, but also a spectrum. In some ways I have privilege as a trans woman and a woman that I didn’t have as a gender-non-conforming boy, because I was always very petite. It’s funny, they would tease me for being a “girl” when I was little, and now they tease me for being a guy — which never really happens in real life, it’s just online. I didn’t have that sort of archetypal male privilege that my straight or straight-passing friends had. It’s like, you have to fit into this really narrow box of what is considered archetypally male, which goes into the whole perceiving things of being “gay” or this or that. It’s a prison. A lot of men don’t have the freedom to really, truly be who they are, to express themselves or be vulnerable. It’s like anger is the only emotion that men are allowed to have. And so, in some ways, I’ve actually experienced a lot more privilege as a trans woman… because I fit into some more conventional archetype of gender than I did previously. I always joke I was non-binary back when it was called “Goth.”
There’s a lot of misogyny baked into that whole mindset too. Like, if a little boy is considered a “sissy” or a “pussy” or “girly,” that is the biggest insult you can give them. This also ties into what we were discussing about straight, cis men being afraid to admit they are attracted to trans women — or maybe to any woman who falls outside of what’s considered conventionally desirable — because they’re worried about what other people will think, and especially what other men will think. We assume men do things to impress women, but really, a lot of the time they’re more concerning with impressing other dudes.
Totally. Ironically, it’s kind of really gay! There’s so much inter-policing of what masculinity is. It’s like, emasculation is such… is there “effemination”? I’ve never heard that. Is that even a word?
You can make that a song title! I like that.
It’s just so funny: The same kind of dudes archetypally that would bully me or try to beat me up or fuck with me or tease me [during my childhood] are the same archetypal kind of dudes that now are always in my DMs and hold doors for me in public and are super, super, super nice, but definitely get creepy and rapey and all these other things too. But generally speaking, as much as there’s vitriol from straight men towards trans women, men treat me a hundred-thousand times better like this than they did when I was a femme-boy punk-rock thing. … What’s also worth highlighting about dating and transness is I have more in common sometimes with just other girls that I know that are archetypally bombshells. I’m sure you and I have almost probably identical experiences dating men, because…
Are you calling me a bombshell?
Of course!
Wow, that’s a major compliment, coming from you! I’ll take it.
I just think the way men view me — more as an outspoken woman and a performer and someone who’s tattooed or “alternative” — it’s this whole fetishization that I have more in common with girls like you in our dating world. There’s always points of fetishization. I mean, I’m a Latin girl too, so hello! Or big personalities, or a certain color of hair. I’m sure you get some kind of thing for being a redhead that is specific to your experience, that you could speak on, that mirrors the trans thing in so many ways.
Well, I would never claim to walk in your shoes.
But we have more in common than not. I just think that there’s more points that we can all relate, in that the way men treat trans women often comes more down to a fetishization of a certain archetype. The way they might treat me, versus an archetypally different-looking type of trans women, would be actually really different as well.
To bring it back to why it’s important that you’re doing this tour and putting out music, we were discussing all these laws about presenting one’s gender “properly.” And with “gender-bending” being such a big part of rock ‘n’ roll for decades, I think that’s important. Because you got teased as a kid for not fitting the idea of what a boy was supposed to look like, and now there are laws dictating what a man is supposed to look like. It’s all getting so polarized and binary again. So, I think we need musical artists — whether they’re queer, straight, cis, trans, whatever — that are fucking with those stereotypes.
Yes, and I do really want to stress my advocacy for people that are outside of the trans community. I follow these issues really closely, obviously, and what we’re seeing, especially with bathroom laws specifically, is people are being targeted who are not trans. … Ironically, most cis-normative trans women are probably not going to have that much of a problem, because we have always acclimated to these worlds and are often navigating spaces where we’re not welcome. But it is going to affect alternative people and everyday people [who look androgynous or gender-non-conforming]. And I guess that’s what it will take for people to wake up on some of these issues. But I hope to use my experience as an example to create more awareness for everyone about what’s going on.
I really appreciate you doing that, and that I hope that anyone who attends your tour dates with Lords of Acid feel like it’s a safe space to dress or present however they choose.
Yes, this is a safe space, especially in some of these [red states] that are treacherous. I think it’s important to be able to offer that, for people that need it in [states] that are really not so safe. So, thank you for making that point, because I think that’s important.
Of course. And it seems like you have thought everything out, but I hope you stay safe on the road as well.
