In 2018, I had the immense thrill of interviewing original KISS guitarist Ace Frehley for Yahoo. We talked at length about his sixth solo album, Spaceman, as well as the 40th anniversaries of both the Halloween cult classic KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park and Frehley’s first solo LP. But of course, the Space Ace ran his (amusingly gum-chomping) mouth about his ex-bandmates and their End of the Road final tour (which featured longtime KISS member Tommy Thayer, who’d been controversially wearing Frehley’s Spaceman makeup since 2002, on guitar) and whether he’d be willing to participate in that tour if the opportunity arose.
“I knew you were gonna ask that!” Frehley chuckled when I inquired about any KISS reunion plans, with a glint in his eye that suggested he wasn’t telling the whole story. (At one point, he asked me exactly when this interview would run.) “OK, I have a pat answer, and it’s true: I haven’t been invited,” he said. But that didn’t mean Frehley wasn’t open to the idea. “For the right price,” he admitted, he would “absolutely” do it.
“The first year of that [1996] reunion tour, we grossed $215 million. … So, what would it be today? Probably double that? Half a billion? I’m there,” he laughed. “Anything can happen. … The ball’s in Gene and Paul’s court. So fans, if you want it, speak up. If you don’t, don’t. I’m OK either way. Don’t worry about me. Tell Paul and Gene what to do — because you pay their salary. It’s true.”
Frehley joked that his former KISS mates, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, had “big egos, and they’ll be the first ones to admit it. I have a big ego, but not quite as big as Gene’s. Gene likes to talk about three people: me, myself, and I.” But he did believe they would listen to the KISS Army if the fans want him back — if not for a full farewell tour, then for a specific one-off reunion concert. And that might have happened at this year’s Kennedy Center Honors, at which KISS are set to be fêted. But sadly, when the Kennedy Center ceremony takes place on Dec. 7, Frehley will now become only the third person to receive the honor posthumously, following the Eagles’ Glenn Frey and Grateful Dead’s Phil Lesh.
My epic conversation with the Space Ace, in both unedited video form above and as written Q&A below, has never been published in full until now. Lyndsanity is running it today (Oct. 16, 2025) in light of the legendary rocker’s death at age 74.
LYNDSANITY: So, we’re going to start talking about your new album, Spaceman. It’s very nostalgic. What was your mindset with the record?
ACE FREHLEY: That wasn’t planned like it was on my [2014] album Space Invader, which came out several years ago. … You know what people are saying? I’ve done about 50 interviews already with people that have heard [Spaceman], and they said it reminds them of my ‘78 solo album. And I originally wanted to call the album 40 Years Later, because it’s been 40 years since “New York Groove” came out. But I’m doing a Vault Experience in Miami with Gene Simmons — I traveled with him around the country for a few of his Vault Experiences — and I actually polled the audience. We were doing a Q&A, and I said, “What does everybody think of 40 Years After?” And it was like… ha, you’re shaking your head too. So, all of a sudden Gene steps in. I’m going to do a Gene Simmons imitation. He goes, “Ace! You should call it Spaceman.” There you go.
And you listened.
Gene named the record, not me.
I think some people might be surprised by that Gene is involved with this record, not just in naming it, but he’s also on a couple tracks, right?
He’s on the opening track, “Without You I’m Nothing,” and he’s on “Your Wish Is My Command.” He’s playing bass on that. He co-wrote the first and the third song with me.
Interesting. I say people might be surprised, because it’s assumed that there’s bad blood with you, Gene, and Paul.
There’s no bad blood. I mean, think about it. A year ago, Paul Stanley did a video with me for “Fire and Water” and sang on [Frehley’s fifth solo album] Origins Vol. 1. So, that whole bad blood thing is over with. We all get along great, and we have been getting along great for a while. Who knows what’s going to happen in the future?
That opens up the question, obviously…
Ha! I knew you were going to ask that!
Well, you just set that question up, so thank you! You made my job easier. Obviously, Paul and Gene just announced the second farewell tour, but supposedly the real farewell tour, for KISS. So, I just want to know if you or Peter Criss will be involved in any way.
When is this [interview] going to be aired?
This will air when record comes out in October. What is the release date again?
I think the 17th or 18th. Or 16th.I can’t remember dates.
OK, but I need to know if you’re going to be involved in this tour at all! I know the fans would love to know.
OK, I have a pat answer, and it’s true: I haven’t been invited.
You have not been invited?
Right. I was invited to the [KISS Kruise], and I’m going to perform on the cruise with a band and KISS is going to be performing at different times. But anything can happen on the KISS Kruise. I might grab Paul or Gene and say, “Hey, play a song with me.” They might do the same to me. Or they may not. I don’t know. All I can tell you is the minute they posted it on the internet that I was going to be on the cruise, it sold out in a day. So, who knows?
I get the impression that you’re holding some information back from me.
Well, you can’t lay all your cards on the table in one day.
You have my word that if you gave me a scoop, but it couldn’t run [until an embargoed date…]
I don’t believe you! I can’t give out any information. No, but I’m being totally honest when I say at this juncture, I haven’t been officially invited. I’ll use the word “officially,” which leaves a little to the imagination.
My imagination is running wild! What I want to know is, if you were officially invited, would you do it?
For the right price? Absolutely. And not necessarily because I want to do a reunion tour, because I’m having so much fun with my own band and recording records at home and producing them and writing them and singing them. I mean, Spaceman is my fourth album since 2009. So, it’s not something that I’m chomping at the bit to do, because my career has been going up and up and up and up. But the reason I would do it, if it was handed to me in the proper way, is for the fans. I know the fans want it to happen, because I read the comments on the internet, and 90 percent of them overwhelmingly are saying, “Bring Ace back!” But if Paul and Gene decide to put a deaf ear to the fans, I think it’s going to hurt their careers. Those guys always have done what they felt like doing, even when it was not necessarily the best move.
How do you feel about the fact that Tommy is wearing the Spaceman makeup?
Well, he’s been doing that for what, 15 years?
Yes, but I know a lot of the fans still are not happy about that.
I know some of the fans want to kill him! I actually like Tommy. He’s a friend of mine, and I have nothing bad to say about Tommy. But the reality is, the KISS configuration at this juncture is pretty much half a copy band. It’d be one thing if Tommy would’ve invented his own character, invented his own guitar solos, but unfortunately, he’s copying everything I do, note-for-note. So, there’s not much leeway for anybody to say that what he’s doing is original. I don’t know how I could handle that. I don’t think I could step into a situation and be somebody else. It is almost like being a robot. Poor Tommy. My heart bleeds for him.
Well, Paul once said that he thought KISS could continue on forever with no original members, and just handpick people wearing the makeup.
I’ve heard that statement. You know why I think he said that? To somehow make people accept [current drummer] Eric [Singer] and Tommy, because that would put them in the mindset of, “Oh, eventually Gene is going to be replaced and also Paul, so it’ll be four different guys.” That’s not going to fly, and I know it. So, I think that was just a psychological ploy, if you want to call it that. But I mean, I love Eric and I love Tommy. Tommy used to be my tour manager. I don’t think a lot of people are aware of that. Before he joined KISS to take my place, he was our tour manager. I used to send him out to get sandwiches. Next thing you know, he’s wearing my makeup and playing my solos. Go figure. You can’t write this stuff. If somebody came to a [movie] producer with a story about a famous rock band and they said, “Yeah, the lead guitarist left who was loved, appreciated, and a huge part of the band, and then they hired the road manager,” a producer would say, “Are you crazy? Nobody’s going to believe that!” Right?
Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
I’m not sure if I’m really in the world. They say in 2012, with that particle projector in Switzerland, the world ended and then it rebooted. So, for a microsecond, we all died [in 2012] and now we’re in a different reality. We’re in a matrix.
That makes sense in a lot of ways, actually.
So, maybe in the alternate universe, I’m still in the band or something else changed. Who cares? I just live life day-by-day and I don’t worry about the past. And I really don’t worry much about the future.
Well, I definitely think the KISS Army would like you back, if not for the full farewell tour, then for maybe a specific show, like a homecoming date, a New York date. Something where we see the original four back together.
Look, anything can happen. There’s probably five or six different ways a tour could happen. I mean, for all I know, they might want to involve Bruce and Bob Kulick. Unfortunately, Mark St. John passed away. Eric Singer passed away…
You mean Eric Carr?
I mean Eric Carr. Oh, Eric, forgive me!
It’s OK.
Eric [Singer] is a really good friend. When I was working with Eric during the arena tour [in 2001], me and Eric were like buddy-buddy, and we would go out to clubs and jam with bands. I have a great working relationship with Eric. And me and Paul and Gene are fine at this juncture. So, anything can happen. The sky’s the limit. I think the fans need to speak up. Speak up, fans! Speak up! Go on the internet and tell Paul and Gene what to do, because you pay their salary. It’s true.
So, you mentioned your solo record that came out 40 years ago, when all of the four KISS solo members did solo albums…
Right. We all went off on our own, got a producer, and each put out a solo record.
From what I recall, history has been kindest to yours, and was kindest at that time too. Your solo record was not only the top-selling among all four, but also the most critically acclaimed. And that must’ve been a proud moment for you, but I’m wondering if it caused any division in the band at the time.
Well, really to this day, I don’t even think Gene will acknowledge it. But that’s OK. They have a problem. They have big egos, and they’ll be the first ones to admit it. I have a big ego, but not quite as big as Gene’s. Gene likes to talk about three people: me, myself, and I. But as far as the solo albums, we all went off and did it. I was lucky enough to get Eddie Kramer to produce my record, who had worked with KISS before, who I felt comfortable with, so my creative juices flowed. That’s why that album came out so good. And his assistant was the one that came up with the idea to do “New York Groove” [a song written by Russ Ballard and originally recorded by glam band Hello in 1975]. … That was my biggest hit, and I was against doing it. Eddie just talked me into it. Go figure.
I don’t profess to be any kind of genius musically. I never even took a guitar lesson, really. And yet, every day I get guitar players coming up to me going, “Man, if it wasn’t for you, I never would’ve picked up a guitar!” And I go, “Well, thank you. That’s a nice compliment.” But I kind of feel guilty, because I didn’t even know how to… I did an instructional video in 2009, and they had a guy off camera, who said, “Hey, play this complicated solo that you do.” And then they said, “OK, explain to the viewers because this is an instructional video. Explain to them what it is.” I didn’t know what to say! I didn’t know the musical terms, so they had to pause the camera! Then this guy would tell me what it is: “You’re playing a major run going into a minor run…” And it was a complete nightmare. I’ll never do another, unless I do it on my own and just do it silly and make jokes and say, “Look, I dunno what I’m doing. I just do it.”
You do it well! So, going back to the four solo records, that was a risky move. I can’t imagine a huge rock band right now deciding to put out full solo records, all at once, kind of competing with each other. I guess that’s a testament to just how big KISS were at the time, that you could get away with that.
Well, think about history. What other group besides KISS had four recognizable characters?
The Beatles.
OK, that all sang lead, besides the Beatles, and had four recognizable members. Clearly, there was an audience for Peter, Paul, Gene. Everybody had their favorite. There’s not that many groups in history like KISS. We were one of the few groups in the world that could have pulled that off. Because when you think of bands… and I’m guilty of it myself, about a lot of my favorite groups. I don’t know the names of every guy in the band. I’ll know the lead singer’s name or the lead guitar player’s name, which are usually the two most popular guys in the band. But the rest? What’s the drummer’s name? I don’t know. Sorry, drummers!
By the way, what was the second-biggest-selling of those four albums? Yours was the number one. Do you know what the ranking was, in terms of sales?
I don’t know, actually. If you go on the internet, you’ll get 10 different answers. … Probably Gene was No. 2. It’s a tossup between Paul and Gene. I mean, Paul had some good songs. Paul’s a great pop writer. He writes some great pop songs. Gene’s the guy that writes those gritty riff songs, like “God of Thunder” and “Christine Sixteen.” And I love playing guitar solos on those songs, because why did I think I had a hat on? I told you; I’m in a matrix here. One minute, I’m here. One minute I’m there. I think we all are.
So, right after the four solo releases, you guys did KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park. I know for a while you kind of disavowed it, or weren’t thrilled with it or proud of it. But it has become a cult classic. The obvious question is, why did you decide to make a TV movie? How’d that come about?
Because Hanna Barbera offered us a lot of money, and my manager thought it was a great idea and he sold it to us. If you talk to Paul and Gene about the movie, they both hate it. As far as I’m concerned, I think it’s campy and funny. And if you’re a KISS fan, you’re going to enjoy the film. I was loaded through half of the movie, so I didn’t even know what was going on half the time. But luckily I had cue cards, and I was pretty good at hiding it. I didn’t drink too much when I knew I had an important scene. And one of the guys on the set was a cocaine dealer. I’m not going to mention any names, but he used to keep cocaine in his hat and come to my trailer. So, if I drank too much back in those days, I’d do a little cocaine. I’m not going to lie, because I’ve been sober 12 years. We’re only as sick as our secrets. So, back in those days, yeah, I’d do a little coke if I drank too much, which would give me a little pick-me-up. And then I’d be ready for the scene.
Can you describe the plot of this film, as best you can?
The plot? I have no idea what that movie’s about! I know there were four alternative KISS robots that this evil scientist made, and that it was shot at Magic Mountain incidentally, and he had a secret workshop there, and we ended up having a fight with them. And my stuntman was Black, but he happened to be the best guy. He was the guy that did the good flips when we had the fight. It was a lot of fun doing that. And Peter’s man was a real famous stuntman, Billy Joe something. He’d done a lot of stunts and was one of the most famous stuntmen in Hollywood. I’m not sure who Paul’s guy was or Gene’s, but my guy was Black and he definitely did that gymnastic shit. Remember the part where he does the flips? I could have never pulled that off. Thank God for him.
But did you fight your stuntman? There was one scene where the real KISS fights the fake KISS, I recall.
Yeah, yeah. It was fake punching and stuff. We practiced. Nobody got hurt.
When the four KISS members fight the robotic cats, is that you or your stuntman?
Fight the cats?
Well, they’re cats or wolves. They’re some kind of furries. I’m not making this up, am I? How can you make this up?
You can’t.
So, that was your stuntman?
I wasn’t present in the Den of Horrors with the Frankenstein and stuff. That was my stuntman. You want to hear the story behind why I wasn’t there?
Yep!
I threw a fit with the producer.
Why?
Well, I’ll tell you what happened. We were staying at the Chateau Marmont, and we’d have to drive every morning to Magic Mountain to shoot. And what would happen is they’d wake me up at 7 o’clock. Of course, I had been partying the night before, so I’m not in a good mood. So, they drive us out there. We each have our own trailers. I put on the makeup. I’m in makeup by 10 o’clock, and I’m supposed to do a scene. I’m all ready to rock. And I get a knock on the door and the producer goes, “We’re going to do some closeups of Gene. We don’t need you until after lunch” — which means I could have slept another six hours. And that happened more than once. So, at that point, between all my drug-induced insanity, I just said bye.
And I jumped in a Mercedes and took off, and my bodyguard was following me in another car. And I’m a good driver, by the way, even though I’ve had a half a dozen accidents. He was following me, so I was looking at the timing, the lights, and I got to an intersection where this light was ready to turn red and I took off — made a left, a right, a left, a right, a left, a right, a left, a right. And I lost them. Then I stopped at a deli and got a six-pack of beer, and then I went over to the Tutankhamun exhibit [at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art]. I’m really into Egyptian history; I think aliens had a lot to do with the building of the pyramids and a lot of the technology. But to make a long story short, I’m standing outside after a couple of beers and I’m going, “Oh shit, I wish I could get in here.” It was sold-out for months. Some woman walks over to me and she goes, “Would you like a ticket? She gave me a ticket Awesome! I went in and walked through the whole exhibit.
And people didn’t know it was you, obviously.
No, nobody knew what we looked like without our makeup. So, I was walking around without makeup, and it calmed me down. Then I slowly drove back to the set, walked into the producer’s office and apologized. And we made friends, and I was fine for the rest of the picture.
Didn’t you have some beef with either the producers or the scriptwriters, because they didn’t initially include a lot of dialogue for you? They just had you saying “ack!” a bunch of times.
Whoever wrote the script didn’t give me lines because I didn’t take the phone call. Everybody in the band was supposed to get a phone call talking about what kind of a personality they were and what would they want to say, or something like that. I don’t know. I missed the call, or something happened. And I think [KISS manager] Bill Aucoin said, “Well, Ace likes to say, ‘Ack!’” So, I got the script, and everybody’s got lines except me. I walked into Bill Aucoin’s office and said, “You better rewrite this. I want some lines.” And they did.
What was your favorite line that you had in the movie?
Well, it was at the end of the day, and we were shooting indoors and Peter was having a big problem saying the word “talisman,” those things that were in the red box. It got to the point where he couldn’t say it, and I would crack up. We did 25 takes. So, finally the producer said, “Ace, you take the line!” And I did it.
See, I thought you were going to say your favorite line was, “So much for my solo!”
Give me a second,,, What were some of the lines I had? I remember when we were locked inside the bars and I think I said something like, “I’ll get us out of here!” And we disappeared and we’re transported to another place, and then we had a fight with monsters. I dunno, we had a lot of fights in that movie.
There’s at least three.
Yeah. Luckily nobody got hurt.
Did you have to do any training for these fights?
We just went over them with the guys, a very professional crew. The stuntmen were all great. I think the movie’s really entertaining and silly. You’ve got to look at it in the right light. It’s not a serious film. Paul and Gene took that movie very seriously, and I just took it as just like another silly thing. I mean, come on, we’re superheroes. We’ve got comic books out. How serious can you take KISS? I never took KISS seriously. And Paul and Gene, they were always so serious. Maybe it’s because they weren’t loaded. Neither of those guys drank. The whole rollercoaster ride of KISS to me was just like this jolly, crazy ride where I’m wearing makeup and dressed up as a superhero and playing guitar and having fun and meeting beautiful women along the way. I just never took the thing that seriously, even though we were one of the biggest groups in the world. And I still look back on it today and I go, “Wow, that was weird.”
I remember when we did the reunion tour, we sold out Tiger Stadium in Detroit in 48 minutes. It was a record. And I remember that night wearing the same costume, same makeup, and it was 15, 20 years later, I got this déjà vu. I’m going, “Am I in the ‘70s, or am I in the ‘90s?” Because everything looked the same. The makeup covers up a lot of the wrinkles and imperfections, so we looked like we did in the ‘70s, pretty much. I had trained for that. I had gone to the gym every day and got in shape. We all did. And it was just like a moment there of déjà vu: “Am I time traveling? Did I go back in time? Am I in the ‘90s? Am I in 2020? Who knows?”
We still don’t know. We might be in the matrix.
And you know what? The way I live my life, I don’t care. I don’t care if I’m living in an alternate universe, because I’m having fun. I have fun wherever I go. I have a beautiful woman. I have a beautiful home. I have a beautiful daughter. Everybody’s good. Everything’s healthy. I can pay my bills.
Sounds like a good life! I want to ask you another question about Phantom of the Park. You were talking about Peter’s lines, but wasn’t his voice dubbed in by another actor?
Yeah, what happened was after the post-production on that film, they realized that along with the problem he had with that one line, there were more [enunciation] imperfections. It was a production call, we had nothing to do with it, but they actually replaced Peter’s voice in the whole film! I would’ve been really pissed off if it was me. But I know how to speak, luckily, even though I’m from the Bronx. But you can tell that from my accent.
Was Peter pissed?
I never really talked to him about it. I’m sure he was. But to be honest with you, Peter at the time was as loaded as me, if not more. And he may not even have known for a while. I mean, the guy that they got to do the dub, his voice was pretty good. Peter may not have caught on right away. God bless him. He’s 72 and he’s still alive. He’s a breast cancer survivor. What does that mean? How many guys get breast cancer?
You don’t hear that about very much.
I’ve never heard about it. It’s sad. I mean, cancer is sad for anybody, but I would say 98 percent of breast cancer [patients] are women. I only found out about [Criss’s cancer] after the fact, or I would’ve visited him in the hospital and so on and so forth. But yeah, nobody told me anything.
Do you and Peter talk now? Are you in touch?
Yeah. I mean, most of the time when I want to talk to Peter, I have to talk to his wife. She’s like his manager. Gigi. She’s a nice lady. But I don’t even think Peter has his own cell phone, or if he does, I don’t have the number. When I do business with Paul and Gene, I call Paul.
So, you have no idea if Peter would also be open to doing any reunion stuff on KISS’s farewell tour?
Well, for the right price, I’m sure he’d do it. I mean, it’s tough to turn down a couple of million dollars. Let’s face it, our last reunion tour was how long ago? Twenty years ago?
I believe it was 22 years ago.
Wow. The first year of that reunion tour, we grossed $250 million. And that was 20 years ago. So, what would it be today? Probably double that? Half a billion? I’m there.
I’ll be there too. If you’re there. I’m there!
Everybody will be there.
Speaking of concerts, did KISS play a free concert at Magic Mountain for that Phantom scene?
Yes, we did several. We invited a whole bunch of people, and in the parking lot we set up a huge stage. It was free. We got about 3,000 or 4,000 kids there. And then as you said earlier, there was another fight scene on the stage. You said at least three fight scenes.
At least! So, when this movie came out…
When did it come out, by the way?
October 1978. We’re coming up on the 40th anniversary, which is why I’m asking you so many questions about it.
Wait a minute! It came out the same year that my solo album came out?
One month later.
God. I mean, we did so much in a short span of time.
I know, it’s crazy. So, what are your memories when you first saw Phantom?
I never really had any negative feelings about the film. I thought it was funny. I laughed at some of the scenes. I cringed at some of the scenes. But I was intelligent and smart enough to realize that it was what it was. It was just a silly rock ‘n’ roll movie that was designed for KISS fans. It wasn’t Love Story! So, I took it in that light. And to this day, I don’t have a problem with the film.
What did the fans think about it at the time? I was under the impression that there was a backlash.
That’s possible. At that time, there was no internet, so I couldn’t go on YouTube and read comments, so I was kind of out of touch. But if some of the fans didn’t like it, so be it. A lot of fans didn’t like the album The Elder…
Were you involved in that?
Yeah, I played guitar on it, and I wrote two songs.
I wasn’t sure, because that was around the time you were leaving. I wasn’t sure how much you were involved.
I left because of that album.
Can we talk about that?
This is what happened with The Elder. I picked up Bob Ezrin, the producer, at my local airport. I lived in Wilton, Connecticut. I had a seven-acre estate, and I had built a million-dollar recording studio, and I told the guys, “Let’s record up at my place!” And everything was going great for a while, and then eventually the guys said they wanted to move the location, or Bob Ezrin wanted to move the location. So, where do we go? We go up to Canada, to Bob Ezrin’s home studio. Never in a real studio. But the experience was very frustrating, except for the two songs that I wrote that I was happy with. I kept telling Paul, Gene, and Bob, and I think it was Eric [Carr] at the time: “This is the wrong album for this time. Kids are expecting a hard-rock, heavy record, and you want to give him this themed album about some weird guy who wears a hood and walks around?” What was the name of the guy? It was just some weird hermit or wizard or something. It was very loosely based on a concept. I think Gene may have thought that it would spin off into a film or something like that, but Gene’s take on reality isn’t really what it is.
I mean, Gene grew up in Israel until he was about 8. And then he moved to America and he was a Hasidic Jew for a while [editor’s note: Simmons was born in Israel to Hungarian-Jewish immigrant parents and raised in a practicing Jewish household, but was not actually Hasidic], until he broke out of that and got involved with music in college. But he has no street smarts. I was the kind of guy that grew up in the Bronx and hung out at the corner candy store. I’m a street kid; you can throw me in the middle of Compton and I’ll survive one way or the other. Gene doesn’t have that background. I mean, I love Gene, but it’s amazing how many ideas he’s brought to me and I’ve said, “Are you crazy? That would never fly!” And he doesn’t know the difference sometimes between what’s cool and what isn’t. And it’s not his fault, because he didn’t grow up watching the same TV shows that we watched, and he wasn’t involved in American culture until much later in his life. So, he’s a little out-of-it and doesn’t have those street smarts that I have and Peter had. Paul grew up in Queens, but he wasn’t involved in gangs and hanging out and getting in trouble and stealing cars and getting arrested. I’m not bragging about it; that was just the way it was. It was really up to me and Peter. And Peter was more silent than I was, but I would really exercise my ideas. And during The Elder, we had a lot of fights. I said, “This record’s not going to make it. It’s going to bomb.” And they kept saying to me, “No, just play your guitar and do this and do that.” And look what happened.
Do you think Paul and Gene were trying to take a stab at being credible, because critical acclaim had eluded KISS throughout their career, so they want to make a “serious” statement record?
You have to realize what KISS is. We’re just a comic book, superhero, rock ‘n’ roll act. Luckily, we do have talent and we do have the ability to write good catchy songs. The way we look, if we didn’t have the songs to back it up… I mean, my solo album holds up 40 years later. Why? Because I have talent. And I never even took a guitar lesson, but I did grow up in a family of four musicians. My older brother, my older sister, my mother, and father both played piano. … When I say I never took a guitar lesson, I never took a professional guitar lesson. My brother picked up folk guitar. He’s two years older than me. And of course, as soon as a friend of mine had gotten an electric guitar with a small amp, I went over his house and I already knew how to play an E-chord. I plugged into the amp and turned it on 10 and hit a E-chord, and I was in love at first sight. I knew that that was going to be my shtick. I knew what I was going to. So, that Christmas, my mom and dad got me an electric guitar, and the rest is history. But there’s a lot between the time I joined KISS and my first guitar that I’m going to talk about a lot more in my second book, which right now the working title for is No Regrets 2.
Is that “Too,” as in T-O-O, or the number two?
That’s a good question. It’s only a working title. My second choice for the title is Thanks for the Memories.
I like that one as well. To go back to The Elder, though…
Sorry, I didn’t mean to throw you off-base!
No, don’t worry! But how did that album ultimately lead to you leaving KISS?
Well, when you’re in a supergroup and you work with a bunch of people and they don’t listen to you and you turn out to be right, a light bulb goes off in your head. And you say, “Maybe I should be working with people that agree with me!” The same thing happened to me when my solo album became the most successful. I realized I was more creative away from Paul and Gene and Peter than I was with them. Peter was closer to my background, but we were four different guys with four different backgrounds. But the chemistry of the four of us and the collective thought was what made KISS great. If we were all street kids, KISS would’ve bombed, because all four of us would be getting drunk. But the fact that Paul and Gene were sober, they were taking care of business and making deals while me and Peter were loaded, that’s what made KISS work. They took interviews very seriously. I do today, because I’m sober and I know it’s a part of the business, and I actually enjoy it. And I’m having fun with you.
I’m having a great time too! You say you have no regrets, but do you ever regret that while Paul and Gene were, as you say, taking care of business, that you were off partying? Do you wish you’d been a little bit more involved in that side?
No, I don’t regret anything that I’ve done, because I realized I had to go through all the ups and downs. I ended up in jail. I don’t want to get into all the negative shit that happened to me, but I really ended up hitting bottom. But I think I had to do that to get to where I am today. And that’s why I called [my first autobiography] No Regrets. My AA sponsor says… I hate to bring up AA or anything. Some people think it’s a cult. Give me a break. It saves people’s lives. But I still talk to him today, and his words of wisdom help me out every time I get into a bind mentally. I’ll call him up and he’ll go, “Take care of yourself. If you take care of yourself, everything else around you will work out.” And then I take a deep breath, and he’s right. And what else? What was the question?
Oh, we were talking about your exit during Music From ‘The Elder’, but I think you answered the question.
Yeah, I just realized I needed to be away from those guys. But incidentally, I was doing an interview with Billboard in New York a couple of years ago, and somebody said to me, “If The Elder was never recorded and you went from your last album [with KISS] to Creatures of the Night, would you have left the band?” And when I thought about it, I said there’s probably a good chance I wouldn’t have, because with Creatures of the Night, see, they listened to me! But after I had already exited, because I’m not playing on Creatures of the Night. … There’s great songs on it. That’s the album we should have recorded at my house instead of The Elder.
But look, when Peter left the band, something really became apparent to me. See, we used to vote. Let’s say me and Peter and Paul and Gene were voting, and then there was Bill Aucon, our manager — he was the tiebreaker. So, if me and Peter wanted to do one thing a different way, and Paul and Gene wanted to do one thing a different way, Bill Aucoin always would step in and say, “I’m going to go with either Gene and Paul or Peter and Ace.” But that all disappeared. They fired Bill Aucoin. Peter was retired, asked to leave, and I realized I had lost all my power in the band. Because even if I wanted to do something, Paul and Gene could out-vote me. And that’s what happened with The Elder. I realized I have no say in this band anymore, so that’s one of the main reasons I decided to move on.
Understandable. Was that how the power dynamic always was divided within the band? Was it always Paul and Gene here, and you and Peter over there?
No, sometimes me and Gene would be against Paul and Peter, or whatever. We all gave our 2 cents, and whatever seemed to make the most sense usually won out. But that’s when you have a democratic society, which is what America is. I don’t know if the Illuminati or the White House is running the country, but who gives a crap? You hear all these crazy rumors. I don’t get into politics. But we had a democratic group, and we used to have weekly meetings. Every week we’d sit down at a table and if there was something bothering somebody, I said, “Let’s get it out.” And a lot of times I was kind of like the mediator in the group, if there was a fight amongst us. … Paul and Peter used to fight a lot, because sometimes Peter would speed up or slow down and Paul would go faster, and then Peter would throw a drumstick at him. And then at the end of the show, we’d get back in the dressing room and people were throwing things around, and I’d say, “Hey, let’s call it. We got a show tomorrow night.” And I am a Taurus. I like harmony. I don’t like confrontation, even though I’ve had tons of bar fights.
And fights with robotic cats and stunt doubles ! I know KISS enjoyed a second act I the ‘80s once they took the makeup off, but I think everyone agrees that it was the fab four, the first four, that were the core KISS. So, I really do hope that we’ll see you, Peter, Paul, and Gene together onstage again, before the farewell tour is over.
Anything can happen. The ball’s in Gene and Paul’s court. So, fans, if you want it, speak up. If you don’t, don’t. I’m OK either way. Don’t worry about me.
They want the best! They need to get the best!
I’m the best. Let’s face it.
