Most people know Mitch Grassi from Pentatonix, who won NBC’s talent show The Sing-Off in 2011, parlayed that opportunity into YouTube stardom, and eventually won three Grammys and made history as the first a cappella group to chart a No. 1 album on the Billboard 200.

But Mitch Grassi is also Messer. And if you only know Grassi from Pentatonix (or from Superfruit, his spinoff duo with PTX bandmate Scott Hoying), then you do not know Messer.

Grassi debuted his darkwave pandemic project via Messer’s 2021 EP Roses, with his identity semi-concealed behind witchy Cousin It wigs and blurry visuals. But now, his face and distinctive tenor are front-and-center as he promotes the first full Messer album, Cuts, which sounds lighter and frothier, especially on its lead single, the glitchy hyperpop bop “Not Yet.” This is the result of Grassi now being blissfully in love (“Not Yet” is a “long-distance anthem” about his boyfriend of two years), of him taking stock, and him taking the time to find his true voice — figuratively and literally. Cuts is still a massive departure from the festive fare of perennial Christmas darlings Pentatonix, but Grassi says his fans aren’t all that surprised by this facet of his artistry.

“I think even in the context of Pentatonix, I’ve never been the clean-cut, ‘normal’ member of the band,” Grassi, who’s famous for his haute couture style and outsized personality, tells Lyndsanity with a chuckle. “I think people expect surprises from me… a lot of the Pentatonix fans were like, ‘OK, this kind of makes sense. He’s doing something a little bit off-kilter, a little unusual with his music.’ But this current record, I think, is a little more digestible. And it’s funny, because it feels much more authentic to me than the previous [Messer] record.”

In the video above and Q&A below, Grassi opens up about his “bicoastal” romance; the “slow-burn damage to the identity” he felt while growing up with rigid gender stereotypes in conservative Texas; his evolving fashion sense; how he “delved a lot into shadow work,” “turned toward the darker parts of myself,” and experienced “a bit of an ego death” while making Cuts; and why on Messer’s records, he feels he’s finally singing the way he “was meant to sing.”

LYNDSANITY: If people only know you from Pentatonix or Superfruit, Messer will be a surprise because it’s a whole different thing. Four years ago, when you released Roses, I feel you were maybe hiding who you were. Besides it obviously not being under your name, you were wearing wigs, and the visuals were very murky. I’m curious about the evolution of Messer since then.

MITCH GRASSI: You’re kind of right on the money about that. I think I was really scared to kind of take this leap, and so I was trying to do it in a way that was kind of a “soft-launch” of the next step. I was kind of unsure, still finding my footing, trying to figure out the sound. And I was also in a really weird place with my vocals too, because they’re so present in the world of Pentatonix, and I wanted to show that the vocals were equally as important as the music behind them. So, [the sounds] sort of became more washy on that first record, and yeah, I had the long wig. I think more importantly, I wanted to make a statement that this was something completely different from what I had established with the band.

Completely different. It’s dark. It’s sexy. I hear darkwave, witchhouse, electropop… I actually hear some electroclash too.

I was really big into electroclash when I was a teenager, so I think there’s a lot of shades of that in my music. … Fischerspooner was a big one for me. Peaches, Tiga, all the greats.

When you put out Roses, it was 10 years after Pentatonix won The Sing-Off and launched their career. Had you wanted to do something like Messer for a long time?

I had been wanting to do it for a long time, and I was afforded… I don’t want to say the gift of time, because COVID obviously was a very devastating time in the world. But we all were stuck in our homes, and we had a lot of time to kind of reevaluate, and that’s exactly what I did. I had time to listen to more music and ingest some more art and find some inspiration. I just had all this time, and I was like, “OK, I think now is as good a time as any. I’m going to sit down and I’m going to start writing and start making music and see where it takes me.” And it was really scary, but it was just important for me to take this leap, because Pentatonix is a big part of my identity and my identity is a big part of it, but of course it is a collaborative process and I have to run my ideas by four other people. We all do. I wanted to experiment with another environment where I could just be my own boss and choose my own ideas and curate my own vocals. It’s not something I’d ever done before.

There are probably some people — and I don’t mean this in any shady way — that have a certain perception of Pentatonix, of being “square,” or very mainstream, or very clean-cut, or very pop. And maybe some people who would otherwise like the kind of music that Messer does wouldn’t be open-minded to it if they knew it was you. I’m wondering if that was a concern — that people would be like, “The Pentatonix guy? No way!” And wouldn’t give Messer a chance.

I understand that concern completely. If you’re a big fan of someone and you’re used to seeing them in a certain light in a certain creative environment, you’re like, “No, don’t do this. I’m used to this, and this is what makes me happy! Make more of this!”

Yeah, you’re right — some Pentatonix fans might be resistant. But I’m also talking about people who aren’t Pentatonix fans, who wouldn’t take you seriously because you come from a reality show, or you’re a YouTube star, or an a cappella star. But yeah, then there’s the other side, the Pentatonix fans who would be like, “Oh, no, this is not what I want from Mitch!” So, you had to straddle both concerns, really.

Yeah, definitely. And I didn’t want to alienate anyone, but I wanted to make a clear statement that I’m going to do what I want to do creatively. … At the end of the day, I just want my music to be enjoyed. And I think even in the context of Pentatonix, I’ve never been the clean-cut, “normal” member of the band. I think people expect surprises from me because I’m always staying true to myself. So, I just do the things that I feel look and sound good. I think a lot of the Pentatonix fans were like, “OK, this kind of makes sense. He’s doing something a little bit off-kilter, a little unusual with his music.” But this current record, I think, is a little more digestible. And it’s funny, because it feels much more authentic to me than the previous record.

How so?

With the previous record, I find that I was trying to box it in and I was trying to make it this ‘80s-inspired darkwave/synthpop record, because that’s what I was listening to at the time. And with Cuts, I wanted to make music that came naturally to me, that I wasn’t trying to force a genre upon. Like with “Not Yet.” I love that song. I’m so proud of that song. I think it’s my favorite off of the record because with that one I wasn’t trying to make it any sort of genre. I wasn’t trying to copy any sound or anything like that. It’s just the sound that came out of me naturally. And I think the rest of them are like that too; it’s hard to pin any sort of genre onto the rest of Cuts.

Were you listening to anything during the making of Cuts that pushed the sound in the direction that Messer has gone into?

I’m a big fan of Imogen Heap, especially the Frou Frou era. I draw a lot of influence from her; I always have, since I was a teenager. And Madonna, because I feel that she’s always genre-bending and genre-defying. Röyksopp, I really am a big fan of. And then I really got into video game soundtracks, specifically Akira Yamaoka who does Silent Hill, and I was really inspired by just kind of the PlayStation 2 of it all. I feel like the liquid drum ‘n’ bass sound was popular at that time and I was finding a lot of that online, and it just really puts me in a particular state that influenced the music a lot.

You mentioned how even within the Pentatonix ranks, you’re known as sort of the outlier or the “weird” one. And you’re quite the fashionista! If I look at old footage of Pentatonix, you look very different. I want to hear about your fashion evolution.

It’s tough because I find as the years have gone on, I’m really just more of a fan of simplicity and of creating beautiful shapes with the clothes that I wear on my body, and not necessarily all about making a “statement” anymore. I feel like when I was younger, it was more about the fashion statements and “what I can wear that’s unusual? “and “how I can stand out?” and “how I can wear things that nobody else has worn?” But as I get older, I find that comfort is really important, and shape. I really appreciate good suiting, and I’m a big fan of what Anthony Vacarello is doing at Saint Laurent right now. But the fashion landscape is interesting because — no shade! — I find that a lot of it is not super-original. Which I guess could be said about a lot of artistic mediums, is that there’s really nothing that’s original anymore. So, I think going back to basics with fashion is where I’m at right now, and it feels the least cringe on my body specifically. [laughs]

Have you ever designed clothes or had a capsule collection or anything like that? Would you want to do that?

I would love to do that. I love what the Olson twins are doing with the Row. I’m a big fan of the Row too, and that’s exactly what I’m talking about. It’s the simplicity, and it’s all about beautiful shapes and tailoring and just making a perfect garment. That is really inspiring to me. I don’t think I would do anything extravagant necessarily, but it’s all about highlighting the body in really beautiful ways.

When you were leaning more into super-flamboyant, over-the-top fashions before, was that in any way a reaction to your conservative upbringing in Texas? Like, “I’m just going to go crazy now and wear whatever I want! I’m going to wear heels and makeup!” Was there any connection there?

It’s a good question. I’m sure it was a reaction to my upbringing, because I always had an interest in fashion when I was a kid and a teenager and always wanted to wear flamboyant, extravagant clothing, and never really got the opportunity. So, as I got a little bit older, earned a little bit of money, and lost a little bit of weight, I was like, “Oh, I can fit into these beautiful clothes that I appreciate. I’m just going to go all-in and experiment and see where it takes me.” I think that that’s a very “Mitch” thing to do — getting obsessed with one particular thing and taking it to the extreme. I think that’s a great example.

Does that approach apply to Messer as well? Obsessiveness can be a good thing in art, because you’re laser-focused on what you’re doing.

Yeah, I think so. And I have a tendency to really be distracted easily too, so I think it helps me to really choose something to work off of, a jumping-off point.

You mentioned that Messer initially was a pandemic project. It must have been good to have something to obsess over and be so focused on during that time.

Oh, definitely. That was a very strange time. I can’t believe it was five years ago already!

Cuts is not as dark as the Roses EP, both sonically and visually. Is that because this record was made as we were coming out of that lockdown era?

Good question. Potentially. I was finding my way musically and creatively, and I was on a journey with these collaborators that really brought out the best in me, and I think I was just enjoying it. And then along the way while making this record, I fell in love, and that was really exciting and changed my perspective kind of in every way. I think it added a lightness, and also I would say a lot of vulnerability and insecurity and some fear. But mostly excitement and happiness.

I can totally see you glowing as you say that. Who are you in love with, and how long has this relationship been going on?

My partner, we met in Germany. We met on tour while I was touring with Pentatonix. We had a show in Berlin and met there. We just celebrated our two-year anniversary [on July 15].

Congratulations! Berlin seems very “Mitch.” It’s such a glamorous, sophisticated, fashionable city. Bowie recorded his famously recorded his trilogy there. So, was this a long-distance thing, or do you live in Berlin now? 

It was long-distance at first. And then I was like, “You know what? Let’s just see what it’s like living over there in Berlin for a little bit.” So, I went over there at the top of last year, and then we got a place there, and now we’re… I don’t even know if you would call it “bicoastal,” but we’re in L.A. and Berlin; we go back and forth. So, I’m half-and-half now.

I’m curious to hear more about how your relationship and being in love affected the sound of Cuts.

“Not Yet” is a great example. That is kind of the “long-distance anthem” to me. I wrote that when we were getting really serious and I was on the road, and it was really hard to find times to talk to him. And I was busy and I was just like, “Oh, it’s great,” but it’s also torturous because you want to be 24/7 talking to the person that you’re so in love with, and it’s basically like you’re just killing time. It’s just a waiting game until the next time you can see them. I’m sure people in long-distance relationships can relate.

I’ve read that the Messer project has pulled some inspiration from your conservative upbringing in Texas. Could you have ever imagined, growing up in Arlington, that you’d be one day be bicoastal-living in Berlin and Los Angeles?

No, no way! I never thought that. I never thought I would live in Europe at all. Life takes you to some crazy places sometimes. But I think my art is definitely a direct result of my upbringing and my childhood and the experiences I’ve been through — beautiful or traumatic. I think it’s all a result of that, and it’s my way of processing the things that I’ve seen and been through, and it’s my way of turning them into something beautiful that people can relate to or just simply enjoy.

I know you had the support system of your glee club and choir and theater friends, which I think is so important for all kids, especially for queer kids or just kids that feel weird or different in any way. But you said the word “traumatic.” What it was like for you growing up in Arlington?

It wasn’t the worst thing in the world. There were some hard moments, but I think it was it kind of like a slow-burn damage to the identity. Because in places like that — no hate to Arlington, it raised me — but in places like that, especially in America, it can be very black-and-white. “Men are like this. Women are like this.” There’s no gray area at all. There’s no nuance. So, because I wasn’t “black” or “white” on that scale, I felt very alienated and I was questioning my identity a lot. I think for a long time I was kind of telling myself, “Oh, you’re not a real man if you don’t do these things” and “you don’t have any semblance of masculinity because you don’t live up to this particular mold of what a man should be in today’s society.” I think that has affected a lot of the choices I’ve made in life, specifically creatively too. And it’s led me to rebel a lot, which I think is a blessing in disguise. Because it led me to explore a lot of facets of my identity that maybe I wouldn’t have explored, had I not been conditioned in that way.

courtesy of Girlie Action PR

At what age did you come out, and was that a positive experience or not-so-positive experience?

I came out to friends when I was 15, and then to my parents and my family when I was 16. … It was positive. There was little to no backlash, I would say. I think people were kind of like, “Oh, yeah. OK.” And it afforded me sort of the upper hand too when any bullies or naysayers wanted to say something or they wanted to call me “gay.” I would just be like, “Well, yeah. True. Yes. What else ya got?” [laughs]

Were you bullied a lot as a kid?

It wasn’t a lot, but the moments that did happen, they stick with you. You remember those moments and they cut really deep. So, it wasn’t necessarily frequent, but it definitely affected me a lot. Kids don’t really realize the weight of their words, I think.

Is that why you gravitated towards the a cappella and theater worlds, for sense of the community?

Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I loved the arts and music and I naturally gravitated toward people that shared the same interests, but that was also the part of the student body that was the most open, the most accepting, and the most fun.

On Cuts, what have you explored about yourself, your past, and your identity that you haven’t previously explored?

That’s a thinker! [pauses to mull it over] Well, I think when you fall in love and you have such deep feelings for somebody else and you want to bring your best to the table in a relationship, you start to really think about yourself a lot. And you think about your flaws and the things you need to work on and the things you haven’t faced yet. I delved a lot into shadow work and turned toward the darker parts of myself that I was too afraid to touch until I really had to. And so, there is a lot of that vulnerability and the questioning: if I have a worth in a relationship, if I’m lovable, if people can deal with me. What I love about this record is that it does delve into those worries, the fears of rejection or abandonment, but then at the end of the record, it’s a message of hope and you can feel all these negative, fearful feelings melting away. And what you’re left with is: “Well, I’m still here. I’m still alive. Things are not so bad. Things are actually really great. I’m in a beautiful relationship. I have a great life.” There are some really positive things to focus on, and you can overcome it.

What exactly is shadow work?

I’m not a scholar on it, but it’s a Jungian concept, I believe. It’s basically just delving a little deeper and investigating the darker parts of yourself, the parts of yourself that you don’t show to anyone, and you don’t even show to yourself, that you can’t face for a long time. And it’s really scary. I mean, it is the parts of yourself that affect your day-to-day life, and you don’t want to admit to yourself that they do, if that makes sense. And so, it’s kind of a loss of identity for a little bit. It’s a bit of an ego death. But once you realize that it’s very human to feel these things, it starts to feel smaller and smaller. And the more you incorporate and shake hands with the darker part of yourself in your day-to-day life, I think the more you understand yourself and the more you understand the world around you — in my opinion, anyway.

Wow. When you talk about embracing the darker parts of yourself or getting rid of an identity, that almost seems like what you’ve done with Messer: It’s a different name, you look a little different, you definitely sound different, and it is darker than what you’re known for.

That’s a really interesting take. And you could be onto something there, because it did start off a little bit darker, aesthetically and musically. And yeah, it almost feels like the rebellious teenage son of the household that’s like, “Eff you, I’m going to figure myself out!” And once you do that, the veil kind of lifts and you feel a certain lightness. And I kind of think that’s what Cuts is.

Obviously you’re primarily known for doing a cappella music, so in what ways were you able to tap into your vocal instrument with Messer that you haven’t or couldn’t with Pentatonix?

What I’ve noticed is that there’s no pressure to meet any sort of deadline necessarily or compromise in any way. And I mean that in the best way possible. I understand that in a group you have to make compromises, but with Messer, I can take as long as I want and I can be as tedious as I want with the vocals and tweak them until I am blue in the face! And I think that’s how I’ve discovered what I do best vocally. … I think I’ve just tapped into more of the storytelling aspect of my voice and utilizing a little bit more dynamics. It’s hard to describe, but I can just place my voice in a really pleasurable part of my throat, and when I sing in that part of my voice, I’m like, “OK, there it is. This is how I was meant to sing!” I feel like I’ve always been looking for that, because it’s always been extremes with me. When I was in musical theater, my voice was very musical theater. When I was studying classical music, it was very classical. Then it was very Pentatonix. But now, this is my own thing. I was like, “How do I sing [solo]? I have no example to go off of.” I think I finally kind of settled into it.

What is the future for Messer? It may have started as a passion project, but will it be something you’ll keep doing and focusing on more and more?

I just love performing my music. There is really nothing like it. And so, there’ll definitely be more music, more performances. I want to grow this fanbase together with the fans, and I just want to try everything out musically that I can and really push my voice to the limit — in a healthy way. It’s really, really rewarding for me spiritually. So, it’s not going anywhere.

Do you have a pie-in-the-sky vision for what a Messer concert would look like if you could do a full tour with a big budget?

Oh my gosh! I’ve always dreamed of having people flanking me to my sides and being on drum machines or synthesizers, and having it be very Kraftwerk.

Oh, that has to happen! In the meantime, what’s next for Pentatonix?

I don’t know how much I can say, but we are working on a new record right now, and actually I’m going to be doing rerecords [this week]. We all are. And I think it’ll be wrapped up really soon, and you’ll get to hear a new album soon.

Is the album going to be original songs?

Yeah, it is largely originals.

That’s exciting! The last thing I’ll ask, just to tie it all together, is a lot of people, if they didn’t watch The Sing-Off, first discovered Pentatonix because of your Daft Punk medley, which won you your first Grammy. I imagine Daft Punk must have some influence on what you do as Messer, so I feel like there’s some kind of full-circle-ness to that.

Oh yeah, totally, totally. The Daft Punk thing started actually with Scott [Hoying] and I in high school. I was obsessed with Daft Punk, and I think I showed him the song “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger,” and I think we made silly little lip-synching videos to it. And then that obsession carried on through The Sing-Off and yeah, it’s funny how those things work out, huh?

Well, if you ever do that flanked-synthesizer act in Messer’s shows, you can just put Daft Punk robot helmets on those two people. No one will even know!

Can you imagine? And if I get sued, who cares? [laughs]

Right! You’re a rebel, after all.

Exactly.

This Q&A has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Superfruit, started off as a comedy YouTube channel on which best friends Scott Hoying and Mitch Grassi, of the Grammy-winning a cappella group Pentatonix, goofed off, played games, and vlogged about their crazy lives. But now the project has evolved into a decidedly non-a cappella electropop duo with the release of the fun and fancy-free EP Future Friends – Part One. The music is the perfectly party-ready summer-soundtrack — think Jamiroquai, Scissor Sisters, Phoenix, Daft Punk — but it can still convey a serious message. Case in point: Superfruit’s buzzy, gender-flipping video for “Worth It,” starring young male dancer in a pink gown and a girl rocking a tailored suit.

“It all started from a photo that we took together; we posted it on our socials. It’s me in the pink dress and [Scott] in the suit,” Grassi tells Yahoo.

“We just thought that photo was beautiful, and we wanted to make a bold video that broke gender norms, Hoying elaborates. “We found these amazing kids, these really talented kids that were down to do it. That’s the most emotional song on Part One, so we wanted to do something bold with the video.”

Superfruit photo courtesy of RCA

Grassi says response to the clip was “overwhelmingly very good,” but admits, “I mean, there’s always going to be backlash,” and trolls did come out in force to criticize.

“Yeah, every single [Superfruit] video post always has a lot of homophobic remarks, but that just always happens. We’re not fazed by it,” shrugs Hoying — who, like Grassi, is openly gay. “But there’s way more positivity than negativity, so we don’t really give them the time of day.”

As for any advice Superfruit might give to anyone experiencing online harassment for being queer or just plain different, Grassi says, “I think the best advice would be to just ignore it, because when you engage, it fuels them and then it keeps going. It’s never going to end.”

“Yeah, and they don’t matter to your life,” Hoying adds. “You have your people in your life that care about you and what makes you happy. So, why even entertain [trolls]? Just block them, if you don’t want to see it anymore. I always learn that you just have to own who you are, because then no one can tell you what you are.”

On a positive note, Hoying says Pentatonix and Superfruit regularly receive feedback from fans that say Hoying and Grassi have emboldened them to be themselves. “Oh, yeah, there’s a plethora of them, and that’s one of the most rewarding parts of what we do,” says Hoying. “I feel like in meet-and-greets it happens all the time. Someone will come by and the mother and the daughter will be like, ‘Y’all helped us figure this out in our family.’ They’ll be crying. That just brings us so much joy and makes it feel like, ‘Wow, if anything, this was worth it for me.’”

Hoying and Grassi aren’t a romantic couple, although they have plenty of shipper fans who like to dub them “Scomiche.” Laughs Grassi: “It’s fun to watch them read into every subtlety we have together. They’re like, ‘Oh, this must mean that blah, blah, blah. They must be getting married or something!’”

“Yeah, and the fanfics are just so good,” Hoying chuckles.

“Scomiche” may only be fanfic fodder, but the bond between these two guys is the real deal. “The first word that comes to mind is ‘authentic.’ I feel like our friendship is really real,” says Hoying. “I think that that translates when people watch us. We’re laughing at each other, and we’re having fun, and we’re hanging out. It’s always been like that. … It’s anxiety free when we’re around each other, which is nice. ”

Adds Grassi: “It’s just the most comfortable bond. The most accepting, comfortable thing. We can just be around each other and be totally ourselves, talk about whatever we want, vent, laugh. It’s amazing.”

While Superfruit aren’t going to stop posting hilarious viral videos (check out their Tiger Beat-neon, ‘90s-tastic “Heartthrob” vid, above) or stop making upbeat dance music anytime soon, they do say their next EP, Future Friends – Part Two, will “delve a little deeper and darker.”

“It’s a lot of breakup songs,” reveals Hoying. “Yeah, melancholy and insecure,” says Grassi.

There’s no doubt that fans will continue to connect with the serious, bittersweet side of Superfruit.

Watch Superfruit’s entire Yahoo Music Facebook Live chat below. This article originally ran on Yahoo Music.

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A cappella sensations Pentatonix have reached superstar status — with three Grammys, 13 million YouTube subscribers, their own Christmas special, and several platinum records to their credit — but at the moment, the group seems to be in flux. Members Mitch Grassi and Scott Hoying just released an EP as the duo Superfruit; bass singer Avi Kaplan recently announced in an emotional video message that he is leaving the lineup; and beatboxer Kevin Olusola is working on his own music.

But as Pentatonix’s Kirstin (formerly known to fans as Kirstie Maldonado) visits Yahoo Music to discuss her own new music, she insists with a smile, “No, we’re not breaking up. We’re not breaking up! I keep saying it!”

Kirstin (Photo: Jacob Kramer)

Instead, with her debut solo EP, LOVE, Kirstin is excitedly exploring artistic aspects of herself that she’s been neglecting since Pentatonix won The Sing-Off in 2011 and their career unexpectedly exploded. “It’s cool right now. We are all kind of having the break of figuring it out, because we’re all doing our individual stuff and getting the opportunity to do stuff that we haven’t been able to do for so long, just because we’ve been touring constantly,” she says. “It’s a nice breather, a nice time to figure out what the plan is.”

Kirstin wrote the majority of LOVE with David Pramik and Charlie Snyder, and she relished learning from new collaborators. “Honestly, it’s been really exciting,” she enthuses. “Obviously, for personal reasons it’s been really amazing to create and figure out who I am as an artist. … It was so interesting writing or working on the production or doing the mixes. Everything was just different. I feel like I’ve tried to be a sponge; with all the new people I’m working with, I’m really trying to ask a bunch of questions and listen to their stories and see their process, just because it is so different. There’s still so much to learn. It’s been really, really exciting. I feel like I have grown to be a better asset — obviously for my own stuff, but for Pentatonix as well.”

The result is a “darker, pop-electronic” EP,  not unlike the sumptuous sound of one of Kirstin’s favorite current artists, James Blake. (“The first artist that did it for me with just production was James Blake. … I was just blown away. … I feel like James Blake kind of was the one that introduced me into that world.”) Kirstin realizes that many of her followers probably thought she would release “more of a singer/songwriter-y album,” à la her idol (and onetime Sing-Off judge) Sara Bareilles, and that some Pentatonix diehards would be surprised by the EP’s layered production (“I know it’s 180, because it even has production, so even by that definition it’s definitely 180 from Pentatonix,” she laughs). However, Kirstin says her fanbase has been for the most part enthusiastically supportive of her new direction.

While Kirstin’s fans have always had faith in her abilities, she admits that she lacked self-esteem in the past. “I think beforehand I was too caught up in the role that other people thought I was and other people saying what I should be, or even myself saying what I should be and the level that I could get at,” she muses. “So I think it just took a lot of confidence-building throughout the years and kind of accepting who I was and taking those risks and taking those opportunities — because when I started the solo project last year, I was just so excited and just pleasantly surprised by how creative and fun and how amazing the entire experience was.”

One of LOVE’s tracks, “Bad Weather,” specifically addresses such crises of confidence. “I think people are always going to say things about you or disapprove of your relationships or your ideals or your beliefs or something, but I think you have to stand up and stay strong in who you are and not let it affect you,” Kirstin says of the song’s inspirational message. “Because I think I always just let everything else affect me, and I never quite trusted in myself. I think that’s kind of why I didn’t even step foot with this before, but I’m glad I waited, because I feel like this was the right time.”

As for the future of Pentatonix, Kirstin says they are looking for a replacement for Avi — “The search is on, the search is happening!” – though she laughingly dismisses the idea of holding their own Sing-Off-style talent contest to find a new member. “We definitely want to find someone right,” she stresses. “I know our big worry is we don’t want to capitalize on finding a new bass, because it’s more than that. It needs to be someone that fits and makes the group as special as it was, because it was about all of us as a group together and that story and what we were.

“Obviously, it’s definitely going to be different, but I’m excited to see what it will be. We don’t know yet; it will all depend on the person and what that person will uniquely bring. I feel like we have all grown, even within the past couple of months, and learning about ourselves and learning about our sound. I’m excited.”

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This article originally ran on Yahoo Music.

A cappella sensations Pentatonix have already conquered reality television (as champions of The Sing-Off Season 3); the stadium concert circuit (as the openers on Kelly Clarkson’s recent megatour); the film world (with a role in Pitch Perfect 2); the Grammys (with a win this year for Best Arrangement, Instrumental or A Cappella); the charts (their holiday album That’s Christmas to Me was the fourth best seller of 2014); and, of course, the Internet (with more than 9 million subscribers, they have the 44th most popular overall channel on YouTube, and their Grammy-winning “Daft Punk Medley” has almost 160 million views).

It seems Pentatonix have done it all. But now, with their new self-titled album – their first of almost entirely original material – they’ve set their sights on yet another milestone. Pentatonix want a hit radio single. And with the groovy, ‘90s R&B-inspired “Can’t Sleep Love” (which, incidentally, has racked up 5.8 million YouTube views and counting), they just might conquer the Top 40, too.

“We have so much to say as an artist,” Scott Hoying – who formed Pentatonix with Avi Kaplan, Kirstin Maldonado, Mitch Grassi, and Kevin Olusola in 2011, shortly before their fateful Sing-Off audition – tells Yahoo Music. “We’ve been doing covers for so long and have had a lot of success with it and it’s been amazing, but now we want to show that we can write music and we have something to say. It’s been so much fun. In a month, two months, we wrote 40 or 50 songs. We were so inspired. It kind of breathed a new life into the group.”

“It’s a very vulnerable thing, because it’s something we’ve started from scratch,” says Grassi. “It’s hard!”

“It is scary,” Hoying admits. “When you do something for so long that people love and then you switch it up, you never know if people are going to be like, ‘Oh, they’re not themselves anymore. I’m out.’ But the thing is, our fanbase is so, so loyal, and they love everything we’ve done… So I think [the new album] will go over well.”

Things haven’t always come so easily for Pentatonix. Incredibly, Hoying and Maldonado were passed over by American Idol (Hoying also unsuccessfully tried out for The Voice and The X Factor), and Kaplan, auditioning with a different a cappella group, didn’t make the cut on America’s Got Talent. Once they joined forces for The Sing-Off, Hoying says, “It all came together and just felt so right… We thought, ‘Whoa, this is really special. We can really compete in the music industry.” But then, not everyone in the music industry agreed. Epic Records, the label that signed Pentatonix after their Sing-Off victory, practically dumped the group before the ink on their contract had even dried.

“Our entire career, still to this day [people tell us to give up cappella],” Hoying says. “We were dropped from a label within a week after the show. And that was the reasoning: ‘A cappella can’t do this.’”

But Pentatonix refused to deviate from their instrument-less artistic vision. “This is what makes us special. No one else does this in the mainstream. So there’s no point for us to lose that,” says Kaplan.

It was actually YouTube, not The Sing-Off or any record label assistance, that really put Pentatonix on the musical map (and eventually led to a new deal with RCA Records). So Pentatonix have some advice for any aspiring YouTubers out there. “I would say have a particular vision, know your style, and know yourself well. And make sure whatever you do, it’s high quality,” says Grassi.

“Yeah, put a lot of thought into it, because I think those are the videos that really shine and stand out,” adds Maldonado. “If it’s pristine and perfect, people are going to be like, ‘Wow, that’s amazing, look at all the work they put into it.’ You’re showing your brand in that way as well.”

“You can’t be lazy,” Hoying says, point-blank.

Pentatonix are obviously anything but lazy, and their hard work is paying off. Surely their ultimate goal of “having a top 40 single, or a top 10 single, or a No. 1 single – just having something that plays on the radio a lot!” is well within their reach.

Check out Pentatonix’s chat for more on their Grammy night memories, Daft Punk’s reaction to their “Daft Punk Medley” video, lessons learned from Kelly Clarkson, their collaboration with Jason Derulo, and what they really thought of fellow YouTuber Todrick Hall’s “Pentatodrix” parody video. And catch their adorable bonus clip of what just might be the best Yahoo yodel ever.

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This article originally ran on Yahoo Music.